November 3rd, 2007 07:59 PM
Glad that everything ultimately worked out OK.
(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
I read that as if the firearm needs to be on your person when you are in your vehicle and "on the seat" is obviously not on your person but, I am not all that great at legalese interpretation.
That being said I think the officer over reacted.
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
November 3rd, 2007 08:04 PM
You definitely need to file a complaint and probably follow up with a lawsuit to ensure that that officer gets an attitude alignment. Even more importantly he needs to get some safety training. Barring successful completion of both, he needs to be taken off the street.
Hopefully his superiors will recognize the huge legal liability they have and attempt to remedy it instead of cover it up.
November 3rd, 2007 08:45 PM
Originally Posted by QKShooter
I think it means that one of the three has to be true. Not any two of them. The pistol has to be on the carriers person, the person must remain in the car with the pistol, or the pistol has to be locked and out of site.
For instance, if I were driving and needed gas in my car, I couldn't get out, and leave my gf in the passenger seat (she has no CCW) with my pistol in the center console.
I still think the cop overreacted though!! maybe he's new?
Firefighter / EMT - Always Ready. Ever Willing.
~Never do anything that you don't want to have to explain to the paramedics...~
November 3rd, 2007 09:13 PM
There are several LEO's on this site. I would like to see their POV. While I think the officer over reacted. Making a traffic stop and seeing a gun will trigger, no pun intended, a hostile interpretation.
I am not defending this cop but those of us who are not cops have to realize that police officers, as a result of their daily interaction with the world, have a very skewed perception of the world and I would like to hear an officers POV.
Lex et Libertas — Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus, et Fidelis!
"Not only do the people who put their lives on the line to protect the rest of us deserve better, we all deserve better than to have our own security undermined by those who undermine law enforcement." -Thomas Sowell
November 3rd, 2007 09:42 PM
Sounds as if the LEO over reacted , but having a gun in plain view while LEO approach does lend itself to being taken out of the car felony stop style until all the facts can be sorted out.
Once the officer drew his weapon, best to follow instructions and explain later. They are looking for compliance not reasons or excuses as to why you have a gun at that point.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
November 3rd, 2007 10:01 PM
FOIA for logs, radio tapes, dash cams, and other communications (vehicle to vehicle), e-mail for the officer, back-up officers, including State Police....
Then file the complaint.
Mention the poor trigger finger control (i.e. training) and lack of self-control--how you could have easily become a statistic at the hands of this police officer.
- know the difference
is a fancy name for crappy fighter
You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know
November 3rd, 2007 10:10 PM
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." -Thomas Jefferson
"Liberalism is a Mental Disorder." -Michael Savage
GOOD Gun Control is being able to hit your target! -Myself
November 3rd, 2007 10:43 PM
I'd echo Rockys' post... but only to add that you should make a complaint. But only because is bosses need review what happened- if it went down as you say it did.. wow, bad tactics from the start. He's going to get himself killed. Plus, he needs to keep the little man syndrome in check.
November 3rd, 2007 11:05 PM
LEO here. Not to Monday morning QB, but I would not have reacted the way that you described the officer. A gun in a driver's hand would definately have them looking down the wrong end of my Glock. But a gun in sight that is not in anyone's hand is a little different. However, everyones level of threat is different and he may have felt threatened enough to draw. Although he should have taken it down a notch when you said that your wife has a permit.
It seems that everyone wants to fry this little guy. He may indeed have overreacted. He may be new. I'm sure that he caught enough abuse from the senior guys. I wouldn't file a complaint if I were you. But that choice is yours.
Police Defensive Tactics, Firearms, Carbine Rifle and Taser Instructor
NRA Life Member
It is better to have your gun and not need it, than to need it and not have it!
You cannot choose the conditions for a gunfight, so train in all conditions!
November 3rd, 2007 11:36 PM
AND get a holster or something for the wife.
Originally Posted by gimpy
As a lawyer who has defended and prosecuted a lot of civil rights cases, I do not see any money coming out of this adventure.
It seems that most who have replied to your posting have suggested that you file a complaint. Personally I think that you should forget it. Although I am not that well informed on your state's concealed weapons law, for most states concealed means that the weapon will not be seen from ordinary view. If the pistol was seen by the cop without having to do a search, it certainly is arguable that it was not concealed. For your wife's benefit, I am not convinced that you want to keep stirring this. After all, if your wife's pistol had been concealed, nothing like this would have ever happened anyway. That is why we have "concealed" weapons laws is to keep people, including cops, from getting all of joint for nothing.
November 4th, 2007 12:02 AM
Law Enforcement Officers are NOT to be put on a pedastool! They are average joes like us. Or in some cases less. Don't stand for it!
November 4th, 2007 12:18 AM
I do agree that this officer could have done a lot more to keep the tension level down and the scenario calm.
Remember that if initially approached your car alone then no matter if it was a male and a female in the car or two males - he spotted a firearm on the seat and as far as he was concerned at that moment he was potentially outgunned.
Much of the Verbal Command Yelling that an officer does is done intentionally to help establish an immediate authoritative initial atmosphere that places the officer in absolute control of the situation - as the boss...AKA "Don't DO Anything!...Don't Make A Move!...Until I Tell You To!"
He obviously did not do that perfectly.
I tend to agree with cwblanco on this in that although it was totally unintentional on the part of your wife - she was causative of the problem and then you obviously did not like or appreciate the exact reaction that the officer had to the original cause of problem.
If you pursued it legally I'm not sure you would get much more than an apology.
Now if the officer had his finger ON the trigger while his firearm was pointed at you then you might want to get POed about that as a separate issue. That would bother me personally.
November 4th, 2007 01:31 AM
You might consider using this as an opportunity to contact the chief and suggest some training on the four rules and the CC laws in your state.
LEOs have a lot of laws to learn and some of them could use a refresher.
November 4th, 2007 01:14 AM
Originally Posted by rocky
For all the LEO knew.. he could have got shot.
November 4th, 2007 01:42 AM
I don't quite understand some of the defenses being put out here. Sure there is a gun present, I can understand the LEO putting his hand on his weapon, heck even breaking leather and holding it at the ready. But pointing it at people with his finger on the trigger, who have done nothing threatening and as of that point had done nothing more wrong than a very minor traffic infraction? Maybe she should have had the gun secured better, but there was nothing illegal or particularly dangerous about having the gun how it was. And certainly no less dangerous than Barney Fife doing everything but pull the trigger. I understand that there is some brotherhood among LEO's, and a lot of people feel that they should cut them a little slack. But come on, this guy acted in a criminal fashion, don't protect a scumbag just cause he managed to slip through the cracks and get a badge.
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