LEO saw the gun - Page 7

LEO saw the gun

This is a discussion on LEO saw the gun within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; As with everyone else here, I am so glad that you all are ok, shaken but still ok! I too feel that you NEED to ...

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Thread: LEO saw the gun

  1. #91
    Member Array DarinD's Avatar
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    As with everyone else here, I am so glad that you all are ok, shaken but still ok! I too feel that you NEED to file a complaint. As to the suite, well that will have to be your call. I do feel that the Leprechaun owes you a formal apology and needs to undergo some mandatory training on finger control and maybe even some psycotherapy.


  2. #92
    Member Array Hoytshooter's Avatar
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    I'm glad this situation ended the way it did though it certainly was nerve-wracking for the OP and his wife. I also hope the young officer learned from the several mistakes he made because under different circumstances they could have been fatal.

    He started off correctly by getting the driver out of the car but after that things went out the window, tactically. It sounds as if, even knowing there was a gun and a person in the car, he then takes his attention off the car long enough to handcuff the driver. Correct tactics would call for him to get in a position to be able to watch the passenger while putting the driver on the ground, spread-eagled, then having the passenger get out of the car and assuming the same position. In this manner he would have had total control of the situation. As it was, at no time, until backup arrived, was he really in control of the situation and could have very easily have paid the ultimate price for his mistake. He was very lucky he did panic over two honest citizens because if they hadn't been it would have turned out very badly for him.

    I also hope the OP and his wife have learned a coat pocket is no place to put a firearm, unless it is specifically designed for that purpose.

  3. #93
    Member Array ShadeAngel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    They had probable cause to believe a crime took place, and verified after the fact that permits were valid etc...
    Thanks SIXTO!, that makes sense now.
    "You can't shake the devils hand and say you were only kidding"

  4. #94
    Distinguished Member Array BIG E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    and get aroused in the midst of conflict. Sometimes I would laugh. Later on in life I learned that is not that uncommon.
    Aroused??? Is that a gun in your pocket? Do you have a license for that?

    Glad to hear that you are OK. Sounds like a terrible expierence. I would most definitly file a complaint. I hope you got Names and Badge #'s.
    Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft!

    -- Theodore Roosevelt --

  5. #95
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    You said badge numbers...

    I dont know why people always ask for badge numbers... it means nothing except for on TV.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  6. #96
    Senior Member Array Sergeant Mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    You said badge numbers...

    I dont know why people always ask for badge numbers... it means nothing except for on TV.
    In some places it does.

    My badge has a number, and it's my radio call sign.

  7. #97
    Distinguished Member Array AutoFan's Avatar
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    Definitely send in a formal complaint, including a request that you be informed of the outcome. His supervisors or the administrative body that handles such things will review the issue and make a recommendation.

    As for seeing a partially concealed gun next to a person in a car triggering all this, what would happen if the LEO in question stopped someone with a suspicious bulge on their body? Conduct a felony stop for a legally concealed gun? I know people who meet the letter of the law, but you can tell they are carrying.

  8. #98
    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digitalexplr View Post
    As an Ex-cop, I say file a complaint.

    A simple, "Do you have a permit for that weapon?" would have prevented a lot of issues.
    Ditto

    And make sure you bring up his lack of finger control

  9. #99
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob The Great View Post
    LongRider, I think you and your wife were very fortunate, considering. Having the gun slip out, getting stopped in the first place, yes, that was bad luck/poor attention. But this is exactly the kind of situation you hear about ending with either a dead permit holder (rare) or more commonly, a mountain of charges and an even bigger mountain of legal fees over the course of several years, with no guarantee of being exonerated. All things considered, I think you lucked out.
    Fortunate, lucked out? Mountain of charges? Exactly what do you think we could have been charged with? I have said it about every way I know how from the first post forward. Other than the burnt out tail light NO LAW WAS VIOLATED by us. These are the post I am having a very hard time with. There is no offense on the books that he could have filed unless we are talking about him planting drugs or something. Now this officer may be a lot of things but I never implied nor would I assume to call him that. As that is about the vilest thing I can think of to call an officer of the law. So barring that. Let it be a given that he is Not a dirty cop. Remember I live in Washington State not Washington D.C so only Washington State laws are relevant. What could I have been possibly been charged with other than a defective equipment ticket. Think maybe I did not get the ticket defective equipment after the other officers talked to him because he did not want the court to hear he pulled a gun on a citizen for a defective light bulb. So please explain how we were lucky by any fortune or lucky. Sorry if it seems I am jumping on you and just your post. Not my intent. I am reacting to all of the posts that somehow presumes we must have done something illegal and we somehow got a break.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergeant Mac View Post
    In some places it does.

    My badge has a number, and it's my radio call sign.
    Oh I understand that, but it really doesn’t mean a hill of beans to anyone not in L.E., unless we are talking about a P.D. that is so huge officers are a number instead of a person. The only one that I know of that still operates that way is N.Y.P.D., and I’m not sure if they even do still.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  11. #101
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bzdog View Post
    No, I think this is on-track for Washington as well. I think the discussion about being in the car makes it sound more complicated than it is. AFAIK, to be covered under our CCW, it must be CC. If covered under car transport, it must be out of sight. I'm no lawyer, but even if he technically squeaks by, I think it's pretty marginal.
    John, Read the law and my posts about the "expert interpretation or call call WSP. Your interpretation is as incorrect as the officer's.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    Fortunate, lucked out? Mountain of charges? Exactly what do you think we could have been charged with? I have said it about every way I know how from the first post forward. Other than the burnt out tail light NO LAW WAS VIOLATED by us. These are the post I am having a very hard time with. There is no offense on the books that he could have filed unless we are talking about him planting drugs or something. Now this officer may be a lot of things but I never implied nor would I assume to call him that. As that is about the vilest thing I can think of to call an officer of the law. So barring that. Let it be a given that he is Not a dirty cop. Remember I live in Washington State not Washington D.C so only Washington State laws are relevant. What could I have been possibly been charged with other than a defective equipment ticket. Think maybe I did not get the ticket defective equipment after the other officers talked to him because he did not want the court to hear he pulled a gun on a citizen for a defective light bulb. So please explain how we were lucky by any fortune or lucky. Sorry if it seems I am jumping on you and just your post. Not my intent. I am reacting to all of the posts that somehow presumes we must have done something illegal and we somehow got a break.
    Its not about whether a law was broken or not, its about perception. That officer had a split second to make a choice how to handle the situation. We have days to decide how we are going to pick apart the traffic stop.
    At the time of the stop, it doesnt matter a hill of beans if a law was broken or not. Its not a legal debate, its one of survival.

    If that officer perceived you and your wife more of a threat than you actually are, you could have been very unlucky and we would be reading about this in the newspaper instead of you typing it out in your point of view.
    Where you got lucky was the officer only pointed his pistol at you. No triggers were pulled accidentally or with intent. At that point, it doesn’t really matter who’s right or wrong. Dead is dead.
    That is why I made the comment about playing big boy games. It’s the real world, and there are right ways of doing things and wrong ways. You and your wife made a minor error, and the officer made a few mistakes too. Anyone of those errors could have been costly. You got lucky because they didn’t.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  13. #103
    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    Starts hopping around like a leprechaun with a jumping bean enema.

    Too, too funny. Not the incident but the mental image I got from you description. Barney Fife comes to mind.

    You need to contact the department and get a copy of his in car camera tape of the event. I desparately want to see this cop in action.

    I feel for you about the event. Glad everything eventually turned out ok, and I hope the other officers rip him a new one for the next couple of week.

    Get a copy of the tape, please, we all need to see it.
    + one million on copy of the tape
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    Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.”
    ― Thomas Paine

  14. #104
    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    Fortunate, lucked out? Mountain of charges? Exactly what do you think we could have been charged with? I have said it about every way I know how from the first post forward. Other than the burnt out tail light NO LAW WAS VIOLATED by us.
    Let me explain... I understand that no law was violated, and I did not mean that you "got away with" anything. Clearly, you were in the right.

    Sixto clarified part of my meaning: You can be as right as right can be, and still get shot for your trouble.

    However, you can also be right and have charges filed against you anyway, laws broken or not. The "let the judge sort it out" mentality can be very costly, even if you do finally exonerate yourself. I've seen and heard of cases where the officers on scene are unsure or incorrect on their understanding of the law, especially relating to firearms, and decide to file charges "just in case" to avoid letting an offender off the hook. Unfortunately, this tends to have massive and often irreversible consequences for the guy in question, and take way too long to settle.

    So, because of those things, yes, I say you and your wife were fortunate things did not turn out worse. It sure wasn't thanks to Officer Jumping Bean, but at least you were allowed to leave the scene with all your possessions and under your own power, and you never have to see any of them again.

    That's what I meant by "lucky." I'm sorry if it came off another way.
    "A well-educated electorate, being necessary to the continuance of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed."
    Is this hard to understand? Then why does it get unintelligible to some people when 5 little words are changed?

  15. #105
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Well, if you want folks to comment and offer up an intelligent outsider opinion as to the situation that occurred then you need to provide as much factual, actual information as possible.
    Since none of us were there with you we can only comment on what you type as fact and we cannot speculate as to what you leave out.
    Are there relevant facts I missed in my original post? If you believe so please ask any question you like.

    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    I would say that if your scenario (as you've related it) is what happened and that if the fact that the LEO firearm was pointed at your wife with the LEO finger on the trigger then you should absolutely get that issue resolved in any way possible.
    I am not OK with anyway possible. Sorry not how I am put together. Part of the motive for the post was to get input on the least destructive most constructive way to deal with it. Even though I may feel like wasting this guys career if I can. I know that is not the most productive tactic I can take. My being pissed off does not justify my causing him harm needlessly. As others have said this could be an opportunity for him to become the kind of officer we all want in our community. One of the facts I did not cover in my post is in retrospect he was young and my guess would be is that he is a rookie but that is not a fact its a guess
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

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