Open Carry Petition in Texas - Page 2

Open Carry Petition in Texas

This is a discussion on Open Carry Petition in Texas within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by fed_wif_a_sig I might be a wierd one, but I'm not a fan of open carry, cept when working on your own property. ...

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Thread: Open Carry Petition in Texas

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fed_wif_a_sig View Post
    I might be a wierd one, but I'm not a fan of open carry, cept when working on your own property. I'm just one of those that has carried a weapon concealed for over twenty years and feel that if bad guys know whos packing they know what/who to choose as victims. Oh well I'm sure I'm the lone one on this but I wont vote for it.
    you don't have to open carry if you vote for it.it just helps w/rights.
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  2. #17
    Distinguished Member Array P7fanatic's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by nuparadigm View Post
    I've already signed it even though petitions don't matter a whole lot in Texas.
    I think you may be right.
    If I remember right, and I don't agree with it, there are no rights for citizen referendums in Texas.


    "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." -Thomas Jefferson

    "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder." -Michael Savage

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  3. #18
    Distinguished Member Array P7fanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dang.45 View Post
    One last thing - willie, you have by far the best avatar I've seen on this site. Maybe the best I've seen on any site! + 1,000,000 for your avatar!!!
    Not to say there is anything wrong with the avatar but maybe willie is living in the wrong state. Plan on moving to California sometime soon Willie?
    "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." -Thomas Jefferson

    "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder." -Michael Savage

    GOOD Gun Control is being able to hit your target! -Myself

  4. #19
    Distinguished Member Array P7fanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwblanco View Post
    I have lived in Texas for 66 years, practicing law for 38 years. Texas adopted its concealed carry law somewhere around 1994. Before that hand guns could be carried in a vehicle only while travelling (generally interpreted from county to county). From all of that I can determine, until Texas adopted the CHL law, open carry for hand guns has not been permitted for about 100 years. However, you may be a lot older than I am, and I could be wrong by a decade or two.


    I may be wrong but I think it was OK to 'open carry' a rifle wherever you chose, even a bar. Well, maybe not a courthouse.
    Does that sound familier cwblanco?
    "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." -Thomas Jefferson

    "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder." -Michael Savage

    GOOD Gun Control is being able to hit your target! -Myself

  5. #20
    Senior Member Array mr surveyor's Avatar
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    Back when, I parked in the school parking lot with a rifle, shotgun and recurve bow hanging full view in the gunrack in my pickup, and never had a problem. But, handguns were never, to my knowledge, openly carried by anyone except law enforcement. Good way to have landed yourself in the pokie. (for the record, I've only been here in Texas for 54 years....before that I was just a gleam in my Dad's eyes)


    For what it's worth, I really don't think very many folks (other than mall ninja types) would even want to open carry. It would be nice to relax the standards of concealment a bit to make exposures like removing one's jacket or cover garment at a resturant an acceptable act though. For the moment, I think our current direction on legislation regarding 2A in Texas is progressing very well.

    Just my opinions!

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array cwblanco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P7fanatic View Post


    I may be wrong but I think it was OK to 'open carry' a rifle wherever you chose, even a bar. Well, maybe not a courthouse.
    Does that sound familier cwblanco?
    You are absolutely correct in connection with a rifle, except I don't recall that carrying in a bar was ever permitted after the "Gunsmoke days". Otherwise, I think that open carry of a rifle has never been prohibited by Texas (with only few exceptions). To show how things have changed, when I was in high school many of the guys had gun racks in the cabs of their pickup trucks so that they could proudly display their deer rifles when we went to school.

  7. #22
    Member Array dang.45's Avatar
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    I'm a hard-core libertarian (philosophically - not affiliated with the party...), and that is why I advocate for the state not to prohibit the open carrying of handguns. I for one would never do it, for the reasons I and others have already stated above, but I don't believe the state has any right to tell me or anyone else that I can't.

    I can only see two possible reasons for prohibiting open carry (and neither one is legitimate):

    1. The state doesn't want people to be "scared" when they see someone carrying a gun - no where (Constitution, Bible, etc) have I ever found a "right" to not be scared - or
    2. The state is trying to protect me from becoming a target of BGs - I don't want or need the state to protect me from myself, thank you very much!

    To sum up - I think open carry is unwise, and I'll do my best to convince you of that if you disagree BUT, no one has the right to tell me or anyone else that I can't open carry. That's my position & I'm stickin' to it!

    (ps - I fully recognize & understand that the various levels of local, state, & federal government have the ability to tell me how / whether I can carry, I just don't believe they have the right to do so. This is not a trivial distinction...)
    "It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had a right to choose: his own." - John Galt, from Atlas Shrugged

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    The wording could be better. They mention Maryland in #7 and then in #8 say that open carry is common in the states listed in #7. I grew up in Maryland and can only recall one time ever seeing someone open carrying. He attracted quite a bit of attention from the local constabulary.
    I did sign it, for what it's worth. For me it is not so much that I would OC as I would like to be able to grab stuff off of any shelf at the store and not have to worry about flashing.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  9. #24
    Member Array airbornerangerboogie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dang.45 View Post
    First off, let me be clear that I think it is silly for a state to prohibit open carry. It is our right as citizens to "bear arms", and if it freaks some unenlightened people out, well they need to go back and retake some of their US History & Civics classes from high school.

    Having said that, and looking at it from a different point of view, I don't think that a requirement that a weapon that, let's face it, will upset a great many people if it is seen, be kept concealed is unreasonable. If by carrying concealed we can keep a bunch of people from getting their undies in a bundle over seeing what they (incorrectly) perceive to be a bunch of gun-totin' weirdos (i.e. US!), and thereby preventing them from lobbying to have the carrying of guns greatly restricted or eliminated altogether, isn't that a fair deal to make? And no matter what, having our legally carried guns concealed makes us safer, knowing that the BGs can't ID us ahead of time & remove us as potential threats first.

    Maybe there can be a compromise that localities can set their own rules on open carry (to accommodate the more rural &/or enlightened areas), without being able to interfere with any qualifying citizen (i.e. non-felon) to carry concealed anywhere. Is that not acceptable for some reason?

    And just to be sure I'm clear, I refer you back to my 1st paragraph above for how I really feel. I'm just sayin...

    One last thing - willie, you have by far the best avatar I've seen on this site. Maybe the best I've seen on any site! + 1,000,000 for your avatar!!!
    Even if open carry were here today, I'm not sure I would (the element of surprise being one reason), but I'd like the option available to me. My 1 concern is that the petition states "anyone who can legally purchase", there needs to be some kind of formal training involved. Not sure how to put this without getting flamed, but there are people out there who can legally buy a gun, but should under no circumstances be allowed to own bullets for it. I think we all know someone like this, that mall ninja, an uncle joe, an aunt sara, that weird neighbor who wears the aluminum beanie to keep out the thought police. Seriously though being an armed citizen carries a real responsibility, that we train and be proficient with our weapons, that we always strive to ensure public safety while maintaining personal safety...just my thoughts.
    “Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.” James Dean
    Phil (NRA Member and Vietnam Vet)
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  10. #25
    Member Array dang.45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by airbornerangerboogie View Post
    Even if open carry were here today, I'm not sure I would (the element of surprise being one reason), but I'd like the option available to me. My 1 concern is that the petition states "anyone who can legally purchase", there needs to be some kind of formal training involved. Not sure how to put this without getting flamed, but there are people out there who can legally buy a gun, but should under no circumstances be allowed to own bullets for it. I think we all know someone like this, that mall ninja, an uncle joe, an aunt sara, that weird neighbor who wears the aluminum beanie to keep out the thought police. Seriously though being an armed citizen carries a real responsibility, that we train and be proficient with our weapons, that we always strive to ensure public safety while maintaining personal safety...just my thoughts.
    Hey, on a personal level, I agree with you 110%. I definitely know people who shouldn't be allowed within 100 feet of any gun, any time, for the reasons you mentioned and then some.

    The problem becomes, who gets to determine what level of "training" is enough? I mean, there are some states where the current required CCW training has a few hours of classroom time, maybe you fire a few rounds, and you have to pass a test that some poorly trained monkeys could do pretty well on.

    Or take my home state of Mississippi. While there is the usual background check, and you can't be a felon, etc, there is no training requirement at all. Just show up with your application, pay your money, and wait for the mail to come 120 days later. But you don't hear about any more permit holders committing gun crimes here than you do anywhere else.

    And for the true lover of liberty, there is always Vermont & Alaska...

    Like I said, on a strictly personal level, I agree that there are folks who shouldn't have guns. But I think the idea that some kind of required training - assuming you aren't requiring everyone to go to Blackwater or something like that - is going to keep us safe from the kooks, is not borne out by the available evidence. However, on this issue I'm open to persuasion, so go right ahead and try if you think I'm off my rocker. I'm not likely to be persuaded, but at least it is possible...
    "It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had a right to choose: his own." - John Galt, from Atlas Shrugged

  11. #26
    Member Array airbornerangerboogie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dang.45 View Post
    Hey, on a personal level, I agree with you 110%. I definitely know people who shouldn't be allowed within 100 feet of any gun, any time, for the reasons you mentioned and then some.

    The problem becomes, who gets to determine what level of "training" is enough? I mean, there are some states where the current required CCW training has a few hours of classroom time, maybe you fire a few rounds, and you have to pass a test that some poorly trained monkeys could do pretty well on.

    Or take my home state of Mississippi. While there is the usual background check, and you can't be a felon, etc, there is no training requirement at all. Just show up with your application, pay your money, and wait for the mail to come 120 days later. But you don't hear about any more permit holders committing gun crimes here than you do anywhere else.

    And for the true lover of liberty, there is always Vermont & Alaska...

    Like I said, on a strictly personal level, I agree that there are folks who shouldn't have guns. But I think the idea that some kind of required training - assuming you aren't requiring everyone to go to Blackwater or something like that - is going to keep us safe from the kooks, is not borne out by the available evidence. However, on this issue I'm open to persuasion, so go right ahead and try if you think I'm off my rocker. I'm not likely to be persuaded, but at least it is possible...
    "Who to makes the determination who can carry?", that's a can of worms I don't want to open. I look at it this way, in order for me to drive a car I have to pass a drivers test. I can walk into a car dealership, buy it, and have a licensed driver drive it off the lot for me, but in order for me to get behind the wheel I must show that I not only know how to drive, but have been through a process that "minimally" qualifies me to drive it down the street. In the same way I have a God-given right to own a fire-arm for protection. I can go down to the gun shop, show my drivers license and after a few minutes (in Texas) walk out with a weapon of my choosing. I can load it and carry it anywhere on my property, but what about carrying it concealed or openly in public? I'm not worried about what the "public " or government think, my concerns lay in the individuals level of training to safely carry that weapon and the ability to know when & how to use it without endangering innocent citizens. I don't propose to have the answers, but as a start a citizen shouldn't be allow to open carry unless they posess a CCL or some how showing a certain level of proficiency with the carrying and use of said weapon OJT is not a good teacher in this case.
    “Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.” James Dean
    Phil (NRA Member and Vietnam Vet)
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    I gave them to the naked Pigmy's in New Guinea

  12. #27
    Member Array dang.45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by airbornerangerboogie View Post
    "Who to makes the determination who can carry?", that's a can of worms I don't want to open. I look at it this way, in order for me to drive a car I have to pass a drivers test. I can walk into a car dealership, buy it, and have a licensed driver drive it off the lot for me, but in order for me to get behind the wheel I must show that I not only know how to drive, but have been through a process that "minimally" qualifies me to drive it down the street. In the same way I have a God-given right to own a fire-arm for protection. I can go down to the gun shop, show my drivers license and after a few minutes (in Texas) walk out with a weapon of my choosing. I can load it and carry it anywhere on my property, but what about carrying it concealed or openly in public? I'm not worried about what the "public " or government think, my concerns lay in the individuals level of training to safely carry that weapon and the ability to know when & how to use it without endangering innocent citizens. I don't propose to have the answers, but as a start a citizen shouldn't be allow to open carry unless they posess a CCL or some how showing a certain level of proficiency with the carrying and use of said weapon OJT is not a good teacher in this case.
    Hey, I'm with you 100%. My only issue is a philosophical one - I'm just not all that interested in giving the government power over how, when, & where I am qualified to use the tool of my choice to defend my self. But I know my principles won't get me very far, and I have (almost) no problem with requiring people to get some kind of training. When it comes right down to it, I'm one of those folks who believes in having regular range time, taking day-long classes every month or two, and taking multi-day classes whenever they can be afforded. So the requirements you are seeking would never be an issue for me personally anyway.
    "It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had a right to choose: his own." - John Galt, from Atlas Shrugged

  13. #28
    Ex Member Array DOGOFWAR01's Avatar
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    http://opencarry.org/

    http://www.txcdl.org/TDCL%20INTRODUCTION%20PAGE.htm

    http://www.texasopencarry.com/

    http://www.lptexas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=310

    http://www.txcdl.org/

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum51/

    http://www.gunlaws.com/tgogup3.htm


    Background: Since 1871, carrying a handgun in Texas, despite the Hollywood version of history, has been ----- nearly ----- totally banned for the public (long guns are unaffected by all this). A person who is “traveling” with a handgun is one of the very limited exemptions under the law. However, under this arrangement, mere possession of a handgun was presumed to be guilt of illegal carry, and it was up to you to prove your innocence after arrest, by proving you were traveling.

    ----------

    I remember cowboying as a kid riding and working with grownup cowboys, horseback and traveling moving cattle ranch to ranch, crossing county line, in far West Texas in 1950's. None of them carried "in town" that I can remember.

    From the maps on opencarry.org, looks like Texas is right down there with New York on open carry in red.

    Open carry in the Old West was the good fellars and Concealed carry was the bad fellars - in a general statement.

    1871, passed no open carry in Texas, yes that is a shocker for sure.

    Open carry or concealed carry, I do not remember the 2A stating anything about this one way or the other, more like the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

    Other than " traveling" from 1871 to 1995 (TX CHL Year I think) , how did lawful Texans travel with a handgun ? over 120 or so years -- Bad Fellars probably just kept doing their old ways while the lawful Texans disarmed.

    A Right not exercised is a Right losted.

    More tactical (surprise) is concealed carry. On the other hand open carry availability provides flexibility and overcomes what I understand it is against the law in Texas to ever expose your concealed handgun intentionally or even by accident (coat or shirt rides the body or whatever).

    Why is Texas so restrictive on CHL requirements ? like a State certified Instructor instead of say a certified NRA Instructor ?

    I wonder what the real Texas Patriot's that fought at the Alamo in 1836 would think about all this happening 1871 and 1995 ?

  14. #29
    Ex Member Array DOGOFWAR01's Avatar
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    A quick review of the 2A, I cannot find anything in the 2A about required training or the need for a piece of paper to buy or carry - open or concealed.

    Training is recommended only on a voluntary basis.

    No piece of paper should be required for to buy or carry.

    I am over looking something in the 2A ?

  15. #30
    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    The wording could be better. They mention Maryland in #7 and then in #8 say that open carry is common in the states listed in #7. I grew up in Maryland and can only recall one time ever seeing someone open carrying. He attracted quite a bit of attention from the local constabulary.
    I did sign it, for what it's worth. For me it is not so much that I would OC as I would like to be able to grab stuff off of any shelf at the store and not have to worry about flashing.
    i never thought of that(flashing).thats a good reason for it right there.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.”
    ― Thomas Paine

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