Greg Rotz LTCF (PA) Reinstated : MERGED (includes previous pre court thread)

This is a discussion on Greg Rotz LTCF (PA) Reinstated : MERGED (includes previous pre court thread) within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I have been a lurker here for awhile reading and learning. A recent event here in PA that was posted to a forum ( www.PAFOA.org ...

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Thread: Greg Rotz LTCF (PA) Reinstated : MERGED (includes previous pre court thread)

  1. #1
    New Member Array stevieb92's Avatar
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    Greg Rotz LTCF (PA) Reinstated : MERGED (includes previous pre court thread)

    I have been a lurker here for awhile reading and learning. A recent event here in PA that was posted to a forum (www.PAFOA.org, where I am very active) that I thought is worth notifying others about. This was posted by forum member gnbrotz. Please read below...

    Well, after 5 months I had my first 'run in' with authority because of OCing.

    When I went to my polling place tonight I was asked by the Constable there if "that was a weapon". I replied that it was. He said I would have to leave because weapons were not allowed in the polling place. I asked him what law this was based on. He said it was in the Voting Regulations, to which I replied "That applies to police officers". He said that was correct. He got the regulation book and asked if I would step outside to discuss the matter. I agreed. He turned to the page that had the regulation regarding the police and read it off to me. I told him that I agreed completely, BUT, I was not a police officer, just a private citizen. This seemed to surprise him a bit.

    He then made a call to someone who would "Know for sure". The result of that call was that whoever he called was also unable to come up with anything specific preventing me from voting while carrying. When the call was done, the Constable asked me to please secure my weapon in my vehicle before voting, because it would make him "more comfortable". I asked him if I would be refused entry to vote if I did not, he said no, that I would be permitted to vote either way. As we went back up the steps and prepared to enter, he stated that he "Just couldn't understand why someone would need to bring a gun here, especially in this day and age." I told him that this wasn't something that I did just because I was coming to vote. I carry my weapon every day, wherever I go around town. I also told him that I was not attempting to convince him of my viewpoint, but since I was withing my legal right to do so, I was going to proceed on my own terms. I entered the polls and cast my vote.

    When I was done voting, he was on the phone again, so I waited to speak with him some more. He was speaking with the County Commissioners office, who I could also hear "had never dealt with this situation before". The Constable suggested to them that this be researched further and if there wasn't already a resolution regarding this, that one be passed immediately so this didn't occur in the future. He mentioned to them that "The judges did the same thing so you can't bring guns into the courthouses". When he hung up, I told him that the courthouse ban was covered in the Uniform Firearms Act, which was state law, not something the judges had done on their own. I then asked again for his name so I could write it down. He refused to give it to me, because he said he already did at the beginning of our conversation. I then specifically asked him, "So you are refusing to give me your name again?". He said, "Yes". What he couldn't have known, is that I didn't really need it as I had heard him identify himself to the County Commissioner's office while speaking with them. I offered to be in touch with him so that if I was indeed incorrect on the law, I could educate myself. He told me, "Don't worry, I've got your name."

    He seemed upset enough about the whole thing that I expect him to personally follow up on getting something passed to prohibit this in the future. I didn't think it was worth my time to go into the whole preemption thing with him, since my vote was cast, and I clearly wasn't going to convert him. Hopefully if and when the County Commissioners look into this "incident", they will discover that preemption prevents them from doing so.

    Since this is my first real opposition, I'd appreciate any assistance or suggestions in drafting letters to the appropriate parties to help educate those who need it.
    This member has written letters to several authorities in his county about this incident and his local Representatives. An update he has posted goes terribly wrong...

    UPDATE: I just received a letter from the Franklin County Sheriff's office notifying me that my LTCF has been revoked. "The reason for the REVOCATION is your involvement in which a gun was used by you in an apparent illegal manner."

    There was also a slip from the post office that there is a certified letter from his office as well (which I can't pick up until Monday). Any ideas on what I'm facing and where I can find an attorney that will be able to assist me in the upcoming process??
    Sorry for the long post, but I feel this will not get its due coverage by the current media.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array kavity's Avatar
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    holy crap that sucks. Hopefully he has the ability (read: money and time) to fight this. He did nothing illegal and the County Commissioner is a jackass (edit that if is "vulgar").

    I wish him luck.

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    New Member Array stevieb92's Avatar
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    Many members of PAFOA.org have contributed already or are planning to contribute to his legal expenses. I am as well planning to help out any way I can (read $$$). This cannot be left alone.

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    You may want to contact http://penncdl.org/ as well!

    I can't believe this is happening and we have to fight this kind of non-sense.

    Please give us updates and how we can help.
    NRA Life Member
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    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    PA isn't may-issue, is it? I didn't think a carry permit could be revoked unless you become inelligable to hold it (ie. become convicted of a felony). I've heard of suspension of licence pending investigation (which is another matter), but revoking a permit is quite different, especially for "apparent" illegal activity.

    I'm glad to see the officer handled the situation professionaly. Hopefully, this will get examined, and the guy will get his permit re-instated.
    "A well-educated electorate, being necessary to the continuance of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed."
    Is this hard to understand? Then why does it get unintelligible to some people when 5 little words are changed?

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    Please post where we can send defense funds.
    On my CCW the sticker (CA) on the back says the
    permit can be confiscated by a peace officer
    if I break any gun laws.
    (airports, court houses, schools, etc)
    Makes no mention of voting booths...

    Would the NRA take up the cause?

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    JD
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob The Great View Post
    PA isn't may-issue, is it? I didn't think a carry permit could be revoked unless you become inelligable to hold it (ie. become convicted of a felony). I've heard of suspension of licence pending investigation (which is another matter), but revoking a permit is quite different, especially for "apparent" illegal activity.

    I'm glad to see the officer handled the situation professionaly. Hopefully, this will get examined, and the guy will get his permit re-instated.
    PA is shall issue, the PSP (Pennsylvania State Police) doesn't list reasons for revocation.

    Quote Originally Posted by GBS
    ....Please post where we can send defense funds.
    See HERE for info if you wish to donate $$$


    Now on a side note.

    DefensiveCarry is a Concealed Carry Forum, generally OC realted material is removed, if you want to know why, see THIS THREAD, but seeing as this thread is only reporting a situation that is violating 2nd Amendment rights to bear arms, it is being allowed to run, I moved the thread from Concealed Carry Discussion to 2A Discussion as this is not a concealed carry issue. Whether or not it stays in public view is up to senior staff and more so up to our member base, if anyone starts any OC vs. CC debate, the comments will be deleted.

    Consider this a warning, anyone trolling for an OC vs. CC debate is going to get severely reprimanded.

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    JD
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    FYI

    Regarding PA revocation of a LTCF

    From
    http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/03...3/s33.119.html

    § 33.119. Revocations.

    (a) A Pennsylvania license to carry firearms, Pennsylvania license to sell firearms or a Pennsylvania sportsman’s firearm permit may be revoked by the issuing authority for good cause.

    (b) Notice of revocation shall be in writing upon the official letterhead stationery of the issuing authority and shall state the reason for revocation, the full name and date of birth of the licensee as it appears on the license/permit, the number of the license/permit and the date of revocation.

    (c) The notice shall be sent by certified mail, and, at that time, a copy shall be forwarded to the State Police, Attention: Firearm Unit, 1800 Elmerton Avenue, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania 17110.

    (d) An individual whose license/permit is revoked shall surrender the license/permit to the issuing authority within 5 days of the receipt of notice.

    Source

    The provisions of this § 33.119 adopted February 23, 2001, effective February 24, 2001, 31 Pa.B. 1145.

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    Just FYI I know on my PA card it states valid until the expiration date indicated unless revoked.

    There are no conditions printed on the card or any information on who does the revoking or when or why....but, it's covered above in JDs posting.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

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    New Member Array stevieb92's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    PA is shall issue, the PSP (Pennsylvania State Police) doesn't list reasons for revocation.



    See HERE for info if you wish to donate $$$


    Now on a side note.

    DefensiveCarry is a Concealed Carry Forum, generally OC realted material is removed, if you want to know why, see THIS THREAD, but seeing as this thread is only reporting a situation that is violating 2nd Amendment rights to bear arms, it is being allowed to run, I moved the thread from Concealed Carry Discussion to 2A Discussion as this is not a concealed carry issue. Whether or not it stays in public view is up to senior staff and more so up to our member base, if anyone starts any OC vs. CC debate, the comments will be deleted.

    Consider this a warning, anyone trolling for an OC vs. CC debate is going to get severely reprimanded.

    I apologize for not posting this to the 2A Discussion forum initially. In no way did I post this to start a CC vs OC debate. Just thought that everyone here would want to know how the sherriff is "apparently" overstepping his authority by assigning this to "apparent" illegal activity. Everyone needs to know their rights, and be aware of what their local laws define as illegal activity.

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    JD
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    No worries Steve,

    Quote Originally Posted by stevieb92
    Everyone needs to know their rights, and be aware of what their local laws define as illegal activity.
    I totally agree and this is why the thread is staying up.

    Quote Originally Posted by stevieb92
    I apologize for not posting this to the 2A Discussion forum initially. In no way did I post this to start a CC vs OC debate.
    No worries on that either, my statement wasn't geared towards you, but to anyone who would like to make it an unwanted debate.

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    Senior Member Array rabywk's Avatar
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    Stevie,

    Any more details for us? You stated you would be able to pick up the Certified mail today.
    NRA Rifle Coach
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    --- Some of the friendliest people I have ever talked to are gun owners and shooters and according to the gun activists we are the mass murders and felons of the nation???

  14. #13
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabywk View Post
    Stevie,

    Any more details for us? You stated you would be able to pick up the Certified mail today.
    Stevie is not the one who was hassled, he is just reporting the issue here, if Stevie doesn't check the PA forum for updates, I'll stick my head back in and see what I can find.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rabywk View Post
    Stevie,

    Any more details for us? You stated you would be able to pick up the Certified mail today.
    Because of the Federal holiday he may not be able to get it until tomorrow.
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Wow! :(

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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