NRA - Senate Passes NICS Improvement Act, House Concurs (merged)

This is a discussion on NRA - Senate Passes NICS Improvement Act, House Concurs (merged) within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; source: http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/News....aspx?ID=10407 Wednesday, December 19, 2007 After months of careful negotiation, pro-gun legislation was passed through Congress today. The National Rifle Association (NRA) worked closely ...

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Thread: NRA - Senate Passes NICS Improvement Act, House Concurs (merged)

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    Ex Member Array ibez's Avatar
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    Post NRA - Senate Passes NICS Improvement Act, House Concurs (merged)

    source: http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/News....aspx?ID=10407

    Wednesday, December 19, 2007

    After months of careful negotiation, pro-gun legislation was passed through Congress today. The National Rifle Association (NRA) worked closely with Senator Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) to address his concerns regarding H.R. 2640, the National Instant Check System (NICS) Improvement Act. These changes make a good bill even better. The end product is a win for American gun owners.

    Late yesterday, anti-gun Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA), failed to delay progress of this pro-gun measure. The Violence Policy Center, the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence and other gun control and gun ban groups are opposed to the passage of this legislation because of the many pro-gun improvements contained within.

    The NICS Improvement Act does the following to benefit gun owners:

    * Permanently prohibits the FBI from charging a “user fee” for NICS checks.

    * Requires all federal agencies that impose mental health adjudications or commitments to provide a process for “relief from disabilities.” Extreme anti-gun groups like the Violence Policy Center and Coalition to Stop Gun Violence have expressed “strong concerns” over this aspect of the bill—surely a sign that it represents progress for gun ownership rights.

    * Prevents reporting of mental adjudications or commitments by federal agencies when those adjudications or commitments have been removed.

    * Requires removal of expired, incorrect or otherwise irrelevant records. Today, totally innocent people (e.g., individuals with arrest records, who were never convicted of the crime charged) are sometimes subject to delayed or denied firearm purchases because of incomplete records in the system.

    * Provides a process of error correction if a person is inappropriately committed or declared incompetent by a federal agency. The individual would have an opportunity to correct the error-either through the agency or in court.

    * Prevents use of federal “adjudications” that consist only of medical diagnoses without findings that the people involved are dangerous or mentally incompetent. This would ensure that purely medical records are never used in NICS. Gun ownership rights would only be lost as a result of a finding that the person is a danger to themselves or others, or lacks the capacity to manage his own affairs.

    * Improves the accuracy and completeness of NICS by requiring federal agencies and participating states to provide relevant records to the FBI. For instance, it would give states an incentive to report those who were adjudicated by a court to be "mentally defective," a danger to themselves, a danger to others or suicidal.

    * Requires a Government Accountability Office audit of past NICS improvement spending.

    The bill includes significant changes from the version that previously passed the House, including:

    * Requires incorrect or outdated records to be purged from the system within 30 days after the Attorney General learns of the need for correction.

    * Requires agencies to create “relief from disabilities” programs within 120 days, to prevent bureaucratic foot-dragging.

    * Provides that if a person applies for relief from disabilities and the agency fails to act on the application within a year—for any reason, including lack of funds—the applicant can seek immediate review of his application in federal court.

    * Allows awards of attorney’s fees to applicants who successfully challenge a federal agency’s denial of relief in court.

    * Requires that federal agencies notify all people being subjected to a mental health “adjudication” or commitment process about the consequences to their firearm ownership rights, and the availability of future relief.

    * Earmarks 3-10% of federal implementation grants for use in operating state “relief from disabilities” programs.

    * Elimination of all references to Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives regulations defining adjudications, commitments, or determinations related to Americans’ mental health. Instead, the bill uses terms previously adopted by the Congress.

    On Wednesday evening, by unanimous consent, the U.S. House accepted the Senate amendment to H.R. 2640. The legislation is headed to the President's desk for his signature into law.

    http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/News....aspx?ID=10407


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    BAC
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    My default position after reading the original was pretty negative towards this bill, so I'm going to have to reread the post-Senate version to fully understand what's been changed. It sounds like it's been changed for the better, but "skimming over" bills is probably part of why we ended up with so many bad ones in the first place.


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    Senior Member Array Gun Bunny's Avatar
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    I just got an e-mail from everybody's favorite bunch (that's right, the Brady campaign), and they're tickled pink!!! I doubt that it is really good news for us gun owners!
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    Gun bunny I donno the vpc is basicly accusing brady of being pro gun over this bill .
    Josh Horwitz, executive director of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, adds, "It is ironic that the gun lobby has coerced the Senate into providing resources to rearm mentally disabled veterans during a time when the VA is struggling to provide adequate mental health care to those in need."

    While at the same time, Paul Helmke is challenging politicians to support it:

    I challenge the candidates to support the NICS Improvement Act of 2007. The Virginia Tech shooter was able to buy his guns because Virginia didn't put his information in the system used to check gun buyers. We should do all we can to encourage states to supply records of the dangerously mentally ill and other "prohibited purchasers" (felons, domestic abusers, etc.) to the Brady background check system. Now is the time to pass this bill and send it to the President for his signature.
    Source link http://daysofourtrailers.blogspot.co...gun-lobby.html

    Brady is so deperate to get anything they support passed they will even pitch a hat in with the nra nowdays oO( not having a single significant bill pass at the federal level in 14 years or so seems to have hurt funding a bit for them lol ) .

    Now personally i feel NICS should be abolished instead of improved I will note that this is imho overall a step forward by providing clear cut relief, with a timeline , to the folks who have been improperly denied . IIRC under clinton all appeals of denial status were effectively removed by simply defunding the appeals process at a federal level . Now with this new bill they will have a heck of a time saying they dont have the $$ to process an appeal if they show up in court to contest it . From US V MILLER we can see how courts decide an issue when only one side of the argument is presented .

    IMHO is it a " good law " ?? NO it isnt and nothing short of total abolishment of any requirements to excersise your second amendment rights would be .
    It is however a law we can live with i do believe, and one that does to a degree address some of the wrongs we lived with under the old law .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
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    Ex Member Array ibez's Avatar
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    I did notice the Brady Bunch site also had praise for the Bill
    Their title "Victory in the U.S. Congress to Strengthen the Brady Background Check System"

    The U.S. Congress blaah blahhhh blaahahahh blahaaahhhh , blah blaah blaha blaah blah blah .............

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    I've hated this bill from the beginning and I hate it now. It's nothing less than further progression to enact gun confiscation.

    We've lost another inch.
    "I no longer list firearms I own as a signature. Why give them another list to use when they come to get them?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lochinver View Post
    I've hated this bill from the beginning and I hate it now. It's nothing less than further progression to enact gun confiscation.

    We've lost another inch.
    Agreed. Keep preaching...your choir is listening.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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    Member Array Lochinver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    Agreed. Keep preaching...your choir is listening.
    Well, seeing that this thread has only 7 replies and is at the bottom of the new posts search function. It appears that not many are upset about this as others.

    I'm disappointed.
    "I no longer list firearms I own as a signature. Why give them another list to use when they come to get them?"

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    I think the NRA is trying to save face. They know they lost this battle.
    The anti's and the government have been wanting access tou your medical records for years.

    Michael

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    Try this .....

    New article today
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    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lochinver View Post
    Well, seeing that this thread has only 7 replies and is at the bottom of the new posts search function. It appears that not many are upset about this as others.

    I'm disappointed.
    I'm with you. It's pure freaking crap. If anyone thinks that having Virginia report Cho's information would have stopped him from getting a gun anyway or just making a bomb, they're being naive. Just another inch, like you said before.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

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    Member Array dang.45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lochinver View Post
    Well, seeing that this thread has only 7 replies and is at the bottom of the new posts search function. It appears that not many are upset about this as others.

    I'm disappointed.
    You want responses, so here's my opinion on the matter-

    The right to self-defense is a natural right, or a God-given right, depending on your own personal way of looking at things. If you are physically & emotionally capable of wielding a firearm to exercise this right to self-defense (i.e. not kids), then you should not be barred from purchasing / owning / carrying a firearm, irregardless of your mental state or current / past criminal activities. If society believes that I am such a threat to others that I cannot be allowed to own & carry a gun as the most effective means to defend myself & exercise my right to self-defense, then society should put me under some kind of protective custody (jail, institution, etc) and take on the responsibility for protecting me from others. This seems to me to be the only truly logical & defensible position on the matter, and is why I am opposed to background checks as a matter of principle.

    Having said that, anyone who believes that certain classes of adults should not be allowed to own &/or carry guns (felons, the mentally unstable, etc) must be in favor of some kind of background check system. What other method can a person who believes this use to prevent their chosen classes of people from purchasing & carrying weapons legally?

    Most people today seem to fall into this second camp, which is why we have background checks. Since this is the way it is right now, the best way to deal with it is to do our best to make the background check process as simple, quick, & fair as possible, while we continue to try to persuade our neighbors that their belief in the need for those checks is unfounded. It seems to me that this new bill, while far from perfect, is a good improvement over the current situation, so we should support it, and continue to do our best to push beyond it through education & persuasion.

    NOTE: Obviously, these arguments only apply to the law abiding. Criminals are, well, criminals, and they are going to do whatever they darned well please. Having some type of background check system will make it slightly more difficult to obtain the weapons necessary to commit their nefarious deeds, and will give prosecutors one more violation to charge them with if/when they are caught.
    "It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had a right to choose: his own." - John Galt, from Atlas Shrugged

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    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    The sad part is if people had to get background checks to buy gasoline they'd be pissed as well. The only thing a background check does is change you from innocent until proven guilty to guilty until proven innocent. You are presumed a scumbag that "shouldn't" have a gun until the government says you can.

    That's crap and why I'll never support background checks even if I thought they did anything to stop crime.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

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    Member Array BluesStringer's Avatar
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    I was going to start a new thread for this, but since y'all got one already, and are seeking input, I'll comment and bump this to the top (where it definitely belongs) all in one fell swoop.

    Below is my post, and following that, a letter I wrote to President Bush recently on the subject.

    ************************************************** *****

    GOA Alert-- December 20, 2007

    Please read the above link before reading my comments below.

    Read it and weep brothers & sisters. And if you're a vet who has ever visited a psychiatrist's office for any reason, related to combat-induced problems or not, better find a secluded place in the woods to bury your guns and ammo, because this law has the potential to set in motion your forced disarmament.

    I have always refrained from criticizing the NRA, even when I disagreed with them, because I believed the good they did far outweighed the bad. But I cannot refrain on this one. They blew it. And worse yet, they betrayed the very people that have supported them (and us) with everything from money to activism to, literally, their blood and their lives; our veterans. A sacred trust has been broken, the result of which should be scorn directed at the NRA by every American who cherishes freedom. They have earned mine, and believe me, they really had to go out of their way to do it. They had to betray their charter, their creed, their membership, The Constitution, and they had to betray me personally as a veteran and as an American Citizen. I believe that, with their support for this unamerican legislation, they have signed their own death warrant as a viable and/or influential PAC, which is just as bad for us as it is for the organization. No one won except for the uber-leftist gun-grabbers, who are now joined, for all intents and purposes, by the scoundrels who currently manage and direct the NRA. May they rot in Hell.

    We have one last hope of defeating this legislation without embarking in years of court battles. We must, en mass, write/phone/email President Bush's office to remind him of his obligation to The Constitution, and demand a veto of this horrendous betrayal of the public trust. You can email here: president@whitehouse.gov or you can go here and click on the "Send Message" button right under Bush's picture and compose and send your letter from right there on GOA's website. I'm sure many of you have other good ideas for imploring the President to veto this bill, so post 'em up and let's join together to protect ourselves from this run amok federal government!

    ************************************************** ************************************************

    Here is my recent letter to the President:

    Dear Mr. President,

    I write to implore you to veto HR 2640, NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007. This legislation has the effect of denying by statute the unalienable 2nd Amendment rights of all citizens, with the main target of the law being combat veterans, the very people who fought/fight to defend and uphold said unalienable rights. This legislative assault on our revered Constitution has passed both the House and Senate, and only you, Mr. President, can stop this bill from becoming law, and I respectfully submit that it is your sworn duty to do just that.

    This bill has myriad constitutional problems including, but certainly not limited to, potentially disarming the most deserved class in our society; our veterans, denial of constitutional guarantees of due process and the empowerment of non-law enforcement and non-judiciary entities to decide autonomously when a citizen can or cannot exercise his God-given, constitutionally-guaranteed right to keep and bear arms. And this empowerment of doctors and lawyers comes with no requirement of full disclosure of their potential (and probable) anti-gun, anti-2nd Amendment personal agendas. In fact, a doctor could just as easily rationalize the forced disarmament of a veteran being treated for Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder on his or her STATED opposition to private gun ownership, and nothing in the bill would automatically prevent the government from disarming that veteran on those grounds. No judges. No wrong-doing on the part of the targeted veteran. No indictments and no juries, yet, according to this bill, if you sign it into law, you and the Congress will have substituted your own judgment for that of the framers of The Constitution as regards private gun ownership, private property rights, privacy rights and due process rights. You CANNOT allow this to happen!

    I look forward to news reports of your rebuke of this draconian legislation, and the Congress that authored and passed it, in the strongest possible terms you can muster in the coming days.

    Respectfully,

    Blues (Real Name & Address) Stringer
    Madison, AL
    "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." -- George Washington

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