Send me a PM and I will tell you about my issues with the NRA. A whole lot peeved myself, but, won't air it in public forum. The GAO is a good group of folks.
This is a discussion on NRA vs GOA: MERGED within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I use to belong to the NRA years ago but never renewed my dues because I felt like the NRA was not doing what they ...
I use to belong to the NRA years ago but never renewed my dues because I felt like the NRA was not doing what they could to protect my gun rights. It seemed like they were caving into the Brady bunch and the other gun grabbers.
Then I got wind of the GOA and signed up. So far I like what Larry and the folks at GOA are doing to protect my right to own a gun.
Now the NRA is sending me mail begging me to rejoin and I must say, I have mixed feelings about the NRA and I am reluctant to rejoin. I know some of you are NRA members and I would like some thoughts on this, is the NRA worth joining or do you think they are whimping out on us?
(MODs) please move this to off topic..forgot where I was..sorry..opps
Last edited by DrLewall; January 9th, 2008 at 06:06 PM. Reason: wrong forum
Send me a PM and I will tell you about my issues with the NRA. A whole lot peeved myself, but, won't air it in public forum. The GAO is a good group of folks.
I know, I know, you are smarter than me..just ask you..
The Brady bunch would like nothing more than to reduce the NRA's political power.
I tend to take what I read with skepticism, I am a Life Member of both NRA and GOA. If the NRA does not do 100% what I think is the way to do it, I don't "throw the baby out with the bath water."
Well, like you I did not renew my NRA membership last year. My specific issue was what has become known as the Veterans Disarmament bill that was recently passed and that the NRA was in complete agreement with.
Larry Pratt came and spoke to our chapter of the TFA (Tennessee Firearms Association) several months ago and really explained the bill to us. It was that night that I joined GOA and decided to let my NRA membership lapse. I'll never go back.
Recently the NRA was calling my house. I knew it was a pitch to get me to renew and eventually, after they started calling 3 times a day I answered the phone. As the lady launched into her pitch I stopped her politely and told her why I let my membership expire and that she should write in the comments field if she had one what I had said and then asked that they not ever call my house again as I was now a GO member and would remain so. She actually told me that they had gotten a lot of people saying similar things.
I would hope the NRA realizes that they shot themselves in the butt recently and that they might come around and stop being an appeasement organization and start fighting for our rights again. Until that happens, I will not be a member of the NRA.
They both sometimes fight the wrong battle by trying to fight everything.
Having posted that, I'm a member of both.
I think a lot of folks are picking nits about the NRA and what they do or don't do for gun rights. I feel one needs to be realistic about the problem we face here. Who else is going to have that kind of national clout? Who else can get things changed? What if the NRA wasn't around? GOA gonna have as much political clout?
It reminds me of the conservative folks that say they will not vote to teach those politicians a lesson... PA-LEAZE! Every time that happens we end up with someone like that pervert Klinton!
IMO, you shoud join the NRA and support gun ownership and stop whining about it.
Maxload, The GOA is gaining political clout all the time as more and more of us realize that the NRA really doesn't have our best interests at heart.
And we are not whining about it as you say. We are expressing dissatisfaction with an organization that has lost sight of the goals it was founded with. Much like the Republican party seems to have done for the most part. With an attitude like yours, we would just sit by in blissful ignorance while our 2A rights are sold out from underneath us in increments to appease the Liberals. I believe it is attitudes such as yours that do the real harm to our cause.
<---------------- Member of Both.
IMHO, divided, we fall.
"Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington
Add me to the "I left the NRA and went to GOA too" camp.
Great, now that I have several GOA members here I would like for you guys to answer me a question: How come both VPC (The Brady Bunch) and GOA are in agreement on how bad the NICS Improvement Act (AKA Veterans Disarmament Bill) is? Does that mean that VPC is now on the side of Gun Owners?
They do seem to be strange bedfellows, Doesn't it?
You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
When liberals complain about the influence of the "big gun lobby" they mean NRA. I can think of no better gift we as gun owners can give those who hate the idea of the civilian ownership of firearms during a major election cycle than to weaken the NRA. They will point to the demise of the NRAs clout and membership as the weakening of Americas "gun culture" and a sign that Americans are finally ready for "common sence gun laws"
No they are not perfect and don't always do things I agree with but I honestly believe that without them our gun laws in America would look much like those in England and Australia. The day I believe that the enemies of the 2A no longer hate the NRA is the day I'll quit. I don't think we're there yet.
"Some people go to bed with Lucifer..........then cry, cry, cry when they don't greet the day with God."
+1 there craze! I couldn't agree more.
So, I'm part of the problem? PA-LEZE!
Sounds to me like you have a personal ax to grind about this TN_Mike. You call it the Veterans Disarmament bill, everybody else call it the NCIS Improvement bill.
Gun ownership, gun rights and the 2nd Amendment are ALL much bigger than you and your issues Sir.
If you really believe that the GOA will better serve your needs, then by golly, join them and have a good time.
And, if you feel that strongly about it, you should address your concerns to your representatives, or better yet... March On Washington! - but don't include me in your rant against the NRA.
And Just an FYI -
Established in 1871, the National Rifle Association is America's oldest civil rights and sportsmen's group. Four million members strong, NRA continues its mission to uphold Second Amendment rights and to advocate enforcement of existing laws against violent offenders to reduce crime. The Association remains the nation's leader in firearm education and training for law-abiding gun owners, law enforcement and the military.
The GOA was founded in 1975. That's quite a lot of growing your group has to do.
I'm not against Mr. Richardson or what he and his group stands for, but I strongly feel that we cannot turn back the clock and return to 1776.
'Our cause'(and I'm happy to include you sir), Gun Rights and 2nd Amendment strength would, in my estimation, be better served by standing tall together to turn the liberal threat. I stand by my original post.
I am not saying you are part of the problem Maxload. Not at all. I simply think that the way you feel, like we should stick with the NRA even though I think they stuck it to us with that bill is a problem. I will abandon any organization or political party that I feel has turned its back on me and what I believe and that is exactly what I think the NRA has done.
I have written my sate and federal senators and representatives. I have written the NRA and either gotten no response or a form letter not related to the subject I wrote about.
I have written and emailed the GOA and gotten fast responses that pertain to the subject I was covering.
Over all, the GOA is more in line with my beliefs and I will stick with them.
Gun]Gun Bill Not Anti-Veteran Bill Not Anti-Veteran
Josh Sugarmann: Trojan Horse Gun Control: The NRA Wins on the NICS Bill - Politics on The Huffington Post
Gun Bill Not Anti-Veteran
Larry Scott | October 02, 2007
There is no such thing as the “Veterans Disarmament Act.” There is no pending legislation that would take firearms away from veterans. There is no pending legislation that would prevent a person with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), veteran or not, from purchasing a firearm or ammo.
But, there is a huge campaign of misinformation and scare tactics being forwarded by a small gun owners group who view themselves to be in competition with the National Rifle Association (NRA).
Let’s use some common sense instead of nonsense. If veterans were to lose the right to own firearms, you’d have a lot of unemployed cops. If those who have PTSD were to lose that right, there’d be even more unemployed cops and other first responders, as well. The arguments about a “Veterans Disarmament Act” are, quite simply, ridiculous and illogical.
The piece of legislation is question is H.R. 2640, the NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007. H.R. 2640 was carefully-crafted by the NRA and Members of Congress to protect the rights of gun owners, especially those who may have mental health issues such as PTSD.
Alert: Tell your public officials how you feel about this legislation.
The NICS is the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, the database that contains the names of those not allowed to buy firearms and ammo. There are nine specific groups of persons who are included in the database.
Included is anyone "has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution." "Any mental institution" would, obviously, include a VA hospital mental ward. And, the government's definition of a "mental defective" is: “A determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease: (1) Is a danger to himself or to others; or (2) Lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs. The term shall include a finding of insanity by a court in a criminal case.”
The confusion over H.R. 2640 and veterans, especially veterans with PTSD, began in 2000 when the VA gave the names of between 83,000 and 89,000 veterans to the NICS database. The names were of veterans who had been committed to VA psychiatric wards or who had been adjudicated as a “mental defective.” This was required of all government agencies.
Some thought that any veteran with a mental health issue ended up on the NICS list. That is an absurd assumption. If a veteran tries to quit smoking and goes to VA smoking cessation classes, they are in a mental health program because nicotine is considered an addictive substance. The same applies for those seeking treatment for alcohol or drug abuse. And, we know, these veterans did not end up in the NICS database.
Neither current law nor H.R. 2640 would put any person, including veterans, who have sought psychiatric treatment or voluntarily checked themselves into a psychiatric unit on the NICS list. This includes those with PTSD, those seeking treatment for alcohol or drug abuse and those who have voluntarily sought help and been admitted for observation, sometimes termed a “voluntary commitment.”
So, why all the noise about H.R. 2640? Some feel the small gun owners group is just looking for members. Others feel they have some kind of beef with the NRA. Whatever the reason, the misinformation and scare tactics should be considered for exactly what they are.
The NRA, in the wake of the Virginia Tech shootings that killed over 30 students, realized that current firearms legislation had some real problems. People who should be in the NICS database, like the Virginia Tech shooter, were left out. And, just as important, the NRA knew that some people who shouldn’t be in the database had been included and there was no way for them to get their names of the NICS list. Also, some believe there is wiggle-room in the current regulations that can allow government agencies to “interpret” them incorrectly. The NRA set out to solve those problems, and they did.
The NRA fully supports H.R. 2640. According to the NRA: “Some pro-gun groups have claimed that H.R. 2640 would ‘prohibit’ thousands of people from owning guns. This is not true…In fact, H.R. 2640 would allow some people now unfairly prohibited from owning guns to have their rights restored, and to have their names removed from the instant check system.”
H.R. 2640 would require states to provide quarterly information to the NICS database. This information would have to include those who no longer fall into one of the nine categories of “no buy” persons. There would be penalties for states that do not comply. And, the protections, especially for those with mental health issues, assure that a “medical finding of disability” would not put someone in the NICS database. That would include veterans with a diagnosis of PTSD. Here are the protections as stated in H.R. 2640:
(1) IN GENERAL- No department or agency of the Federal Government may provide to the Attorney General any record of an adjudication or determination related to the mental health of a person, or any commitment of a person to a mental institution if--
(A) the adjudication, determination, or commitment, respectively, has been set aside or expunged, or the person has otherwise been fully released or discharged from all mandatory treatment, supervision, or monitoring;
(B) the person has been found by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority to no longer suffer from the mental health condition that was the basis of the adjudication, determination, or commitment, respectively, or has otherwise been found to be rehabilitated through any procedure available under law; or
(C) the adjudication, determination, or commitment, respectively, is based solely on a medical finding of disability, without a finding that the person is a danger to himself or to others or that the person lacks the mental capacity to manage his own affairs.
Please note again that a person cannot be put on the NICS list solely for a "medical finding of disability,” and that would include PTSD.
Also, H.R. 2640 will provide a means for a person to take their name off the NICS list if they should not be on it, something they cannot do at this time. That provision reads:
(A) PROGRAM FOR RELIEF FROM DISABILITIES- Each department or agency of the United States that makes any adjudication or determination related to the mental health of a person or imposes any commitment to a mental institution, as described in subsection (d)(4) and (g)(4) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code, shall establish a program that permits such a person to apply for relief from the disabilities imposed by such subsections. Relief and judicial review shall be available according to the standards prescribed in section 925(c) of title 18, United States Code.
The bottom line for veterans concerned about H.R. 2640 is to just use some common sense. Read the legislation. You may not agree with it. But, if you’re a veteran or you have been diagnosed with PTSD, don’t worry, they aren’t coming for your firearms. The NRA put it correctly when they said, “H.R. 2640 is NOT gun control legislation.” It IS... legislation designed to end inequities in the current laws that have unfairly prevented many from purchasing firearms and ammo.
PS this came from Military.com
PS Please name 3 things GOA has accomplished for Gun Owners.
Your Larry Pratt thing. Larry Pratt -- Transfer of Wealth
Larry Pratt works with GOA, they are also known to be in direct conflict with anything NRA does, because GOA is a very small minow taking your money, but they can't do anything in the big Fish Pond. Of course Larry Pratt is going to say things to turn you off on that, however none of his facts supports anything the bill says.
Again 3 things the GOA has accomplished at the local, state, or most important National Level.