You may have a machine gun illegally if

You may have a machine gun illegally if

This is a discussion on You may have a machine gun illegally if within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; WorldNetDaily: Drill instructor convicted after rifle jams Drill instructor convicted after rifle jams Guardsman guilty of illegally transferring 'machine gun' after firearm malfunctions Posted: January ...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 36
  1. #1
    Ex Member Array ibez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    255

    Post You may have a machine gun illegally if

    WorldNetDaily: Drill instructor convicted after rifle jams
    Drill instructor convicted after rifle jams
    Guardsman guilty of illegally transferring 'machine gun' after firearm malfunctions

    Posted: January 13, 2008
    1:00 a.m. Eastern

    2008 WorldNetDaily.com

    A drill instructor in the National Guard has been convicted in a Wisconsin federal court of illegally transferring a machine gun after a rifle he loaned to a student malfunctioned, setting off three shots before jamming.

    The verdict of guilty on one count in the case against David Olofson was confirmed yesterday by the clerk's office in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Wisconsin.

    That means now that anyone whose weapon malfunctions is subject to charges of having or handling a banned gun, according to an expert witness who reports that the particular problem is a well-known malfunction and was even the subject of a recall from the manufacturer.

    "If your semiautomatic rifle breaks or malfunctions you are now subject to prosecution. That is now a sad FACT. I guess we know now what Sen. Kennedy meant when he said he looked forward to working with [Acting Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Director] Mike Sullivan on Gun control issues, after his committee approved him for full Senate vote," Len Savage, a weaponry expert who runs Historic Arms LLC, said in a blog.

    "To those in the sporting culture who have derided 'black guns' and so-called 'assault weapons'; Your double barreled shotgun is now next up to be seized and you could possibly be prosecuted if the ATF can get it to 'fire more than once,'" he wrote in Red's Trading Post: Len Savage: "Duck Hunters and Sportsman, You're the next target of the ATF!"

    "Hey, but don't worry," Savage said. "The people testing it have no procedures in writing and the testing will be in secret. Also if you know of information that proves YOUR innocence, maybe the ATF won't claim that it's tax information at your trial and prevent YOUR judge from viewing it."

    He told an interview with Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership that Olofson had been instructing a man in the use of guns, and the student asked to borrow a rifle for some shooting practice.

    "Mr. Olofson was nice enough to accommodate him," Savage said. So the student, Robert Kiernicki, went to a range and fired about 120 rounds. "He went to put in another magazine and the rifle shot three times, then jammed," Savage said.

    A couple of police officers who also were at the ranged immediately approached him and started asking questions about the "automatic" fire, and he told them it was a borrowed weapon.

    "Mr. Olofson, being a responsible person, went down to the police station and said, 'I'm in the National Guard. I know what a machine gun looks like. That's not it,'" Savage said.

    But instead of having the issues resolve, Savage said, it got worse.

    He reported that because of the malfunction, the rifle was seized and sent to the Firearm Technology Branch, the testing arm of the federal agency.

    "The examined and test fired the rifle; then declared it to be 'just a rifle,'" Savage said. "You would think it would all be resolved at this point, this was merely the beginning."

    He said the Special Agent in Charge, Jody Keeku, asked for a re-test and specified that the tests use "soft primered commercial ammunition."

    "FTB has no standardized testing procedures, in fact it has no written procedures at all for testing firearms," Savage said. "They had no standard to stick to, and gleefully tried again. The results this time...'a machinegun.' ATF with a self-admitted 50 percent error rate pursued an indictment and Mr. Olofson was charged with 'Unlawful transfer of a machinegun.'. Not possession, not even Robert Kiernicki was charged with possession (who actually possessed the rifle), though the ATF paid Mr. Kiernicki 'an undisclosed amount of money' to testify against Mr. Olofson at trial," Savage said.

    And then during the trial, the prosecution told the judge it would not provide some information defense lawyers felt would clear their client, Savage continued. That included the fact that the rifle's manufacturer, Olympic Arms, had been issued a recall notice for that very model in 1986 over an issue of guns inadvertently slipping into full automatic mode, if certain parts were worn or if certain ammunition was used.

    Ryan Horsley, who posts the Red's Trading Post blog, said the results were "very concerning."

    "Basically if your Ruger 10/22, Browning Citori Over and Under or Remington 11-87 malfunction and fire more than one round at a time; the ATF will now consider it a machine gun," he wrote.

    He told WND he's had personal experience with guns that malfunction and fire more than one bullet. Even double-barreled shotguns, if both shells would be released at once, now could be considered machine guns and illegal, he said.

    "This precedent is very dangerous," he said.

    Defense attorneys in the Olofson case couldn't be reached immediately to determine whether an appeal would be pursued, but Savage noted the arguments by assistant U.S. Attorney Greg Hannstad, who handled the prosecution.

    "Haanstad claimed the law does not exempt a malfunction. He claims that it states 'any weapon that shoots more than once without manual reloading, per function of the trigger is a machinegun.' To clarify when I was on the stand, I asked him, 'Are you saying if I take my Great Granddaddy's double barrel out and I pull one trigger and both barrels go off, it's a machinegun?' He went back to … 'any weapon that shoots…'" Savage said.

    On the Red's blog, commenters were incensed.

    "'Innocent until proven guilty' has been transformed by the ATF into 'guilty until framed,' said LibertyPlease.

    Horsley also told WND the 2008 edition of Firearms Law Deskbook quotes from a 1999 case in which the court concluded the law on automatic weapons "is not intended to trap the unwary innocent, and well intentioned citizen who possess an otherwise semi-automatic weapon that, by repeated use of the weapon, by the inevitable wear and tear of sporting activities, or by means of mere inattention, happenstance, or illfortune, fires more than semi-automatically."
    my oh my


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array P7fanatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Texan in NWFlorida
    Posts
    1,588

    Cool

    What the ....


    "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." -Thomas Jefferson

    "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder." -Michael Savage

    GOOD Gun Control is being able to hit your target! -Myself

  3. #3
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,924
    The ATF needs to be disbanded. They are out of control.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  4. #4
    BAC
    BAC is offline
    VIP Member Array BAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Posts
    2,292
    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    The ATF needs to be disbanded. They are out of control.
    Congress has noted that several times, and that's why they've been a lot quieter of late. Still busy, just quieter. The shoe-string thing apparently touched a nerve in congress, but not enough for the ATF to be disciplined appropriately. Their purpose ended the day the Prohibition Act was repealed.


    -B

  5. #5
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,924
    I really get tired of this GUILTY until proven innocent bit with some Federal Agencies.

    They don't know what INTENT means either.

    Anybody that doesn't understand the Constitution or insists on making the English language conform to their standards by making up their own definitions needs to be excommunicated and sold to the Chinese for slave labor in Siberia.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array Pete Zaria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    737
    I remember when I was about 16 and my Dad bought a .22 cal Beretta 21A "pocket pistol" brand new from a shop called Warshalls in Seattle. He took me to the range when he tried it out. Loaded it up with 7+1, pulled the trigger... "Damn, that has a lot of kick for a .22". Then we noticed it emptied the whole clip.

    Sent it back to Beretta, got a new gun free, no questions asked.

    Scary to think that if that happened now and someone on the range decided to be a jerk, one could be charged with a felony for it.

    I agree, these senseless laws need to stop - but unfortunately, we seem to be in the minority on the gun control issue in this country, and things aren't looking up for November's election.

    Peace,
    Pete Zaria.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.
    - Margaret Mead


    "Booger Hook Off the Bang Switch" - unknown

  7. #7
    EW3
    EW3 is offline
    Senior Member Array EW3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,078
    I'm sorry, but there is more to this story than WND is reporting. I read from that site from time to time, but they seem to be getting worse with all the one-world-government and other crap.

    Just a hunch.
    "Naked and Starving as They are We Cannot Enough Admire the Incomparable Patience and Fidelity of the Soldiery" George Washington, Valley Forge, 1777.

  8. #8
    VIP Member
    Array Miggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Miami-Dade, FL
    Posts
    6,258
    Quote Originally Posted by EW3 View Post
    I'm sorry, but there is more to this story than WND is reporting. I read from that site from time to time, but they seem to be getting worse with all the one-world-government and other crap.

    Just a hunch.
    The problem is given past actions from ATF, I believe that the report is accurate.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

  9. #9
    Member Array joffe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    165
    Quote Originally Posted by EW3 View Post
    I'm sorry, but there is more to this story than WND is reporting. I read from that site from time to time, but they seem to be getting worse with all the one-world-government and other crap.

    Just a hunch.
    I'd rather get my news from WND than certain other 'mainstream' outlets.. Not sure if that says more about WND than the other ones though.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array Duisburg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Duisburg, Germany
    Posts
    754
    wow...i've seen SKSs malfunction and empty their 10 round magazines before and Ive had a friend whose SAR-1's firing pin got jammed and emptied half a magazine once. The BATFE needs to be done away with attacked law abiding citizens like we are the scum of the earth. Honestly, who declares a shoe string a machine gun?
    I am sworn to protect the Constitution of the U.S.A. from all threats both foreign and domestic.

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array randytulsa2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,548
    "Haanstad claimed the law does not exempt a malfunction. He claims that it states 'any weapon that shoots more than once without manual reloading, per function of the trigger is a machinegun.' To clarify when I was on the stand, I asked him, 'Are you saying if I take my Great Granddaddy's double barrel out and I pull one trigger and both barrels go off, it's a machinegun?' He went back to … 'any weapon that shoots…'" Savage said."

    Hmmm....I guess fanning a single-action revolver would make your old Peacemaker a "machine gun", too, huh?

    Beware, Cowboy-Action Shooters.....
    "...bad decisions that turn out well often make heroes."


    Gary D. Mitchell, A Sniper's Journey: The Truth About the Man and the Rifle, P. 103, NAL Caliber books, 2006, 1st Ed.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    OK
    Posts
    3,468
    Quote Originally Posted by EW3 View Post
    I'm sorry, but there is more to this story than WND is reporting. I read from that site from time to time, but they seem to be getting worse with all the one-world-government and other crap.

    Just a hunch.
    Yes there is and no there isn't. Bottom line, especially with an AR or HK, don't do "off-property" try-outs.

    FYI, Texas forestalled the North American Trade Corridor superhighway last summer. Don't discount the NWO stuff too lightly Our darling Pres & Congress agreed on the doper-freeway, until the public outcry was too loud to be hushed.

  13. #13
    Assistant Administrator
    Array P95Carry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    South West PA
    Posts
    25,484
    I didn't notice a link to this as yet but - go get the MP3 file (approx 10Mb) ....... from JPFO - where Len Savage is interviewed.

    He was there at the court a week ago and gives a report on the seeming debacle. There is a sense of ''rail-roading'' in this case - all based around (convenient) inconsistencies and abuse of power.

    There should be a transcript available eventually.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    5,134
    No matter their leanings , send this to your gongresscritter , along with a polite query about just what rights do they consider preserving since the 2nd is the least of what this fella had trampled .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array Gunnutty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,508
    Guys in searching this out in other forums it seems that there may have been a trigger group change that allowed for a third setting on the receiver. Before we jump to loud let's make sure we have all the info.
    We will be much better off when we learn to deal with things as they really are, instead of how we wish them to be!

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Judge Gives Sheriff Unusual Punishment for Illegally Denying CCW Permit
    By LanceORYGUN in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: July 22nd, 2010, 04:18 PM
  2. Busted w/ empty holster, charged with "illegally carrying"
    By paramedic70002 in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: October 30th, 2007, 04:22 PM
  3. Customer carries CCW into restaurant illegally, saves the day
    By paramedic70002 in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: October 23rd, 2007, 10:39 PM

Search tags for this page

glock selector switch

,

is it illegal to have a machine gun in east tn

,

michigan full auto gun law

Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors