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Should You Lose Your 2A Rights If Convicted Of Domestic Abuse?

4K views 55 replies 39 participants last post by  pgrass101 
#1 ·
#2 ·
I tend to think so. If you can't control yourself, then you can't control yourself, or you don't want to. OTOH, the charge "domestic violence" can and had been applied to some silly things. I confess to nothing but it is my opinion that sometimes a kid needs a spanking.
 
#3 ·
If it was with a firearm, I'd say yes - otherwise, I'm not sure. I'd have to know all the details of what happened.
 
#5 ·
Solely on the basis of an accusation, I say no.

I tend to be a little sensitive to the issue because my wife is heavily involved in the domestic violence prevention community. Nonetheless, constitutionally guaranteed rights, should not be forfeited until after due process has run it's course IMO.
 
#7 ·
Depends entirely on the circumstances of each case. If the abuse was, "he shouted at me" for example, NO! It's too easy to accuse someone and the laws tend to be vague so a conviction may happen with little or no real reason. I also don't believe all felons should be barred for life. I'm sorry but Martha Stewart is a felon buy why should she be barred for life from self-protection with a firearm if she wants one? Now I know she is probably anti-gun and can afford bodyguards but that is not the point. When I was a kid a "felon" was someone who rapped, murdered, or kidnapped. Heinous crimes for which you could get the death penalty. Now those crimes get a slap on the wrist and you can get a felony conviction for j-walking it seems. We have dumbed down the system and taken all logic out of it.
 
#8 ·
I would say if the felony was non-violent it should not bar somebody for life. Also, a domestic abuse has gotten pretty hazy. I would say if the domestic abuse was violent, than after a reasonable amount of time, that person's case should be reviewed. An 18 year old couple who get in a domestic argument that goes to far, shouldn't ban that person from obtaining a gun when he/she is 45 and hasn't seen their ex in over 25 years. Domestic abuse that is non-violent shouldn't have any impact whatsoever.
I also don't think a dishonorable discharge should ban somebody for life(depending on what the DD was for), and I definitely don't think a restraining order should revoke a concealed carry license automatically, but it does. Unfortuantely, if somehow I become unconcealed and a store clerk notices it and doesn't like it and gets a restraining order, my license is suspended...that's just silly. I know, I know, concealed means concealed, and I've never been 'made' so far, but it bothers me that something so simple could go so far.
 
#10 ·
+1 accused no, convicted yes.

This ought to be pretty clear already, if you have a felony conviction, you are not allowed to have a firearm... if you don;t have one, you haven't been shown guilty of anything wrong. don't forget about the amendments that gives bad guys a fair trail and protects against unreasonable search and seizure.

they may be bad guys but they still have rights. We are good guys and sometimes have rights...
 
#11 ·
Convicted yes, as long as they only remove the weapons of the convicted party and not the weapons of the rest of the family. My Father was an abuser, were it not for the 22LR that belonged to my brother there were times he would have killed my mother/ My brother stopped him twice by threatening to shoot him. After he was locked away we then had the guns for protection for when he got out. The protection orders did nothing, just the family running and having the guns to ward him off protected us.
 
#13 ·
"Hacking" the internet is not freedom of speech. It's either invasion of privacy, theft, or even destruction of private property. It's much the same as a burglar breaking into your house.
 
#14 ·
I have a problem with the "for life"...I just don't think one shoe fits all. Many a times a young person has done something very stupid only to pay his/her price to society, then mature, and become upstanding citizens. I think the for life moniker is a bit drastic and draconian...perhaps a 10 year ban.

Rick
 
#15 ·
I wonder how often guys are accused of domestic abuse by women with an axe to grind and that are lying about it. That worries the heck out of me but if a guy hits a women then all bets are off. He should never be able to own a gun or carry CCW for that matter. I just think too many guys get railroaded by women with a bunch of hate when a relationship goes south. I think if a women lies about abuse they should get the same sentence that the guy would have gotten if convicted. I never saw my father touch my mother in anger and I've never touched my wife in anger. I expect the same thing for my SOB son-in-law too. While he has not treated my daughter right he at least knows better then to physically hurt her. He does not want to face my wrath.
 
#17 ·
"This law bans shipment, transport, ownership and use of guns or ammunition by individuals convicted of misdemeanor or felony domestic violence, or who is under a restraining (protection) order for domestic abuse. This law also makes it unlawful to sell or give a firearm or ammunition to such person."

In most cases the wife gets a restraining order that is temporary: There is a hearing before a judge where the restraining order is continued or revoked.
 
#19 ·
During a divorce, my wife came over and tried to shove her way into our house that I had legal custody of. I met her at the door and refused to let her in. She then slapped herself in the face a couple of times (hard) and started screaming about me beating her. Of course, the neighbors heard this and assumed the worst. My ex drove down the street and called the cops, as did the neighbors and I. I waited patiently. Soon my phone rang and the PD dispatcher told me my house was surrounded and to put down my weapons and step out the front door. Apparently my ex told them the house is full of guns and I'm an expert (both true). I knew the drill, I was on the force at the same time (different department). I did as instructed and was down on the grass. Took a little while to explain the situation, but in those cases, you're guilty until proven innocent. When they finally brought her down, I asked the Sgt in charge to show me how my open handed slap could have been done, since it was to the left side of her cheek and my hands don't go backwards, plus asked him to measure the size of my hands against the red marks. AH HA...they finally put the screws to her and she admitted it. She got charged with false reporting and I got the house and the kids. If I wouldn't have had the knowledge and foresight, I would have forever lost my rights to own weapons, and probably lost my house and kids. False accusations can be deadly, and almost always benefit the woman.
Tracy
 
#20 ·
I don't think so, no. You commit violent assault, you should get time and all the financial impact of the medical bills, legal proceedings, etc. You commit murder, you should be strung by the toenails on the city walls. That really should be enough.

The thing is, permanent lifetime prohibition from having an effective means to defend yourself is harsh. As suggested above, in our current guilty-until-proven-otherwise screwball system we've got, mere claims can be sufficient to cause a lifetime problem for someone. Solid handling of actual crimes should be enough, and it results in far less spurious side impacts along the way.
 
#21 ·
In CA I believe so, when I first applied for my CCW I read the list of offenses that would bar one from a permit, I looked at the LEO and made the comment that one had to be a choir-boy to obtain a CCW. The LEO took exception to my comment.

I must be a choir boy, I got my permit in exactly 2 weeks...
 
#22 ·
IMO, I would say it depends on the individual case. As previously stated, some people use domestic violence laws as a sword rather than a shield. As an example, I saw one guy coming to court for his (IIRC) 9th or 10th violation of a restraining order that was in effect since 1992(Court appearance was in 2006 or 2007).He had 3 children under the age of 8 with the woman who got the restraining order against him. She would get mad at him and call the local PD and have him locked up. OMO.
 
#23 · (Edited by Moderator)
+ 1 billion to muller and especially AZ Husker's situations.

It seems that this stuff always benefits the woman. I have so many examples of this, but I will use one. I work with a guy who's ex is a bit crazy (at least to me and him and the judge lol). She lives in the big house got out of the divorce, she doesn't have custody, says she is disabled and so doesn't pay child support (she currently has no job and the tab is picked up by her parents), while he is working 2 + jobs living in a trailer home to pay legal bills, she has had a long standing restraining order against him, can't do nothing about it. Is stuck with legal bills, she just so much as complains to the pd and he is back in court again?? There has been no physical abuse recorded by PD in this relationship? His daughter rebels alot because the mother tells her she needs to have a big house and her dad works all the time and all he cares about is work, also its bad because the daughter is in her teens right now. I feel bad for him, but he takes it in stride.

Yeah I know people will say nobody is perfect all the time in these scenarios but WTH, when did innocent until proven guilty become guilty unless you can absolutely prove you are innocent if you are a guy and the women claims anything she wants??

Lives are ruined by this kind of thing, how come they want to let people die because of this too. The 2a is there for a reason, if you have not been convicted and/or have paid your debt you should be able to carry again.

Later
 
#24 ·
Azmn, I agree with you. The current laws do not handle a complainant well if the complainant is just belligerent and wanting to make their point. OMO
 
#26 ·
An accusation of domestic violence and sexual abuse of the children is practically a routine tactic of women in divorce, and custody conflicts.

All you smug guys are just one baseless accusation away from losing your guns and right to them FOREVER.

It is so common it's not funny.

--Travis--
 
#27 ·
An accusation of domestic violence and sexual abuse of the children is practically a routine tactic of women in divorce, and custody conflicts.
One would think proof would be required, particularly on something so commonly exploited and abused, as such claims are. One would also think educated people are charged with executing the justice system. Sometimes, I fear all we're allowing is the execution of a justice system.
 
#29 ·
nope. the right shall not be infringed. if a person's still dangerous...keep em locked up til they change their ways.
 
#33 ·
I agree with Pitmaster, A 5 year ban would be reasonable, that ban could be automatically renewing. The past felon/abuser/whatever could petition the court with new evidence, within a year of it renewing, as to how he/she has changed, and a judge, jury or panel could decide to renew the restriction or let it lapse. If you could keep the people who serve the panel pretty middle of the road with no extremes one way or the other, I think it could actually work.
 
#34 ·
Accused NO

Convicted, YES only if it involved a weapon, or someone was brutally beaten. But then again, that would be a felony and therefore, that person could no longer own a firearm, so having a CCL is a mute point.

For whatever reason couples get in arguments sometimes and the only good thing about is the making up. If they happen to live in an apartment or condo complex, some neighbor hearing the loud voices may call the COPS, and report a disturbance.

The bad new in that scenario is no matter whose fault it was, the COPS are going to arrest the guy.
 
#35 ·
The bad new in that scenario is no matter whose fault it was, the COPS are going to arrest the guy.
No, not really. Those days are long gone. In a DV case, I think it been 50/50 in the arrests my agency has made in the last 5 years or so.
If there is no clear evidence of violence, we just seperate and have one or the other go to family or a friends house for the night.
If one refuses, it forces our hand to make an arrest... isnt liability great?
 
#36 ·
My wife is a civil service C-17 electrician and several of the divorced guys she works with now carry a tape recorder with them and record every conversation with the exwife when they pick up the kids. One even makes sure the only contact is to meet at the police department to pick up his kids. The police know she has used baseless accusations many times and are on to her tricks. My problem is that she has not been locked up for it and lost the ability to see her kids.
 
#37 ·
False accusations can be deadly, and almost always benefit the woman.
Amen to that.

I've known of several cases right here where there was ZERO truth to the matter. Unfortunatley, a man stands as guilty until proven innocent in court. That is not the way it is supposed to be, but that is the way that it is.

Some lawyers use restraining orders as a matter of routine. The wife files for divorce, the man is served with a restraining order and dosent have a clue as to why. The laywer uses it as a bargaining chip in court,and it is plain wrong.

For years and years the system worked with out being required to forfeit your rights. The antigunners are using this as a way to ban MORE people from owning guns and are being helped by many illinformed, unsuspecting gunowners that dont do abuse, so they have no idea of how it works in the real world.

While I know for a fact that much of abuse cases are legitiamate, I also know that some lives have been totally screwed up by false accusations.

Dosent sound like a big deal until its your life. Then its a big deal.
 
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