Could Numbers USA tactic work for gun owners?

This is a discussion on Could Numbers USA tactic work for gun owners? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; An organization called Numbers USA has used a web-based faxing system to help them to fight amnesty legislation for illegal immigrants. I think this would ...

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Thread: Could Numbers USA tactic work for gun owners?

  1. #1
    Member Array bigiceman's Avatar
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    Could Numbers USA tactic work for gun owners?

    An organization called Numbers USA has used a web-based faxing system to help them to fight amnesty legislation for illegal immigrants. I think this would be a help for us as gun owners too.

    I have written to the NRA suggesting that we have something like this for NRA members and non-members who want to support second ammendment rights. I recommend looking at the Numbers USA site and the setup they have. If you are in the NRA join me in asking the NRA to establish something like this on the NRA website. I sent my request to the NRA-ILA contact point. They have the money and the administrators to do this where our local forums do not.

    If you really like the idea ask other people on other gun related forums to send in their request too.
    Last edited by bigiceman; February 15th, 2008 at 05:24 PM. Reason: spelling
    But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
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  3. #2
    Member Array bigiceman's Avatar
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    I really could use some feedback on this. I respect the opinions of those on this board.
    But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
    "Baa."
    LTC(RET) Dave Grossman

    Revolutionary War Veterans Association Shooter Qualification: Cook

  4. #3
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    If you have an issue you wish to contact your elected reps on, do it with a phone call or write a letter. Do not send a form letter, fax or have a pre-recorded message do it for you. You can still do that, but the staffers count it as one voter's response. They don't read it, because they already know what it says. They just want to record your info and count it. Just so you know your info becomes basically public at that point. You will get all sorts of mail from all parties and candidates.

    Now a letter or personal call counts as up to 1000 voters. The theory is that whatever the issue is, if people write their own letter in their own words that there are probably 999 other voters who feel the same way who won't bother to write, but will vote. The NRA knows this so they give you a tool to contact your reps, but you put in your own message. They will sometimes offer "sample text" but not always.

    NRA-ILA :: Action Center

    I have used capwiz with other groups and it works pretty well. The NRA has copied part of the capwiz training program on their site.

    NRA-ILA :: Grassroots Activism

    Also you can use the NRA Capwiz interface to send email or get contact info to call or write on any subject. The NRA may be able to see what is sent, but it doesn't tag the email that I know of, so you could lobby any position from any site with Capwiz. That is the drawback to the Capwiz system. No restrictions on who can send what.

    If you want people to look at something you really need to provide a link to their website. No clickie no lookie for most people. I Googled it to find it to see what you were talking about. NumbersUSA
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    Member Array Nelson Muntz's Avatar
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    Sorry Scott, not entirely true. As the Iceman noted, NumbersUSA was very effective in shutting down a minimum of 6 amnesty legislations proposed last year alone. We were successfull in slapping the Senate again and again by the sheer Numbers of faxes overwhelming their machines at the same time. But also by the number of calls to their offices, and visits.

    Yes, they counted each fax as one. But because they were prepared ahead of time it was a simple and quick matter to shove our anger in the governments face in short order. They DO note each fax sent, and reply by snail mail. And NumbersUSA allows you to further personalize each message.

    It is a tactic that is effective. I've been in my Senator's office complaining about the issue while simultaneously their phones were ringing off the hook and the fax machine ran its paper over the floor.
    They get the message. For our part, here in Virginia we have the Virginia Citizen's Defense League (VCDL) that provides activisim in a similar manner. Pre-prepared faxes that you can personalize, and provided to flood your state legislature with your voice (and when appropriate, congress). It is also very effective and you get fast replies from your state delegates and senators. They usually are prepared and emailed to you before the nra-ila gets their word out.

    Many states have a version of the VCDL. I know there is a WVCDL in W. VA. You should check and see if there is a version into them in Texas, Iceman.

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    Spike. Correct if enough voters send the prepared message it can have an effect. I didn't mean to imply that it had a zero effect. What I was trying to convey is that a personal message carries more weight. I did the postcard and fax thingy years ago and never received a response to them. I did get hit up for campaign contributions. Every personal message I have sent has been acknowledged with a letter. I also still get hit up for money.

    What I usually do if I don't have much time, is grab the pre-written message and use the points from it writing my own message. That way the points are there, but the message is more personal. Most of the time I try to write my own message.

    My friend went to chief of staff training for his congressman, so he clued me in on some things that they are taught in the training. I'm just trying to get the more activist minded folks to write a personal message versus doing the easy clickie thing. If it comes down to nothing versus doing the clickie thing, then do the clickie thing.
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    Member Array Nelson Muntz's Avatar
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    I think the reason you (and I) did not receive responses from the ILA contact alerts is because 2A is not as big an emotional issue with most folks, and so, our legislators are generally hit with a much smaller proportion of our outrage compared to the 2A activist population. I don't respond to every alert they generate, usually because I have already acted on it elsewhere. If that's typical, on a random rotating basis a small percentage of 2A supporters are making their voices heard.

    Because illegals affect us all in a multitude of social, economic and political ways there stands to be a larger base of outraged citizens speaking out all at once.

    But in any case, I think 2A activism on the local/state level has been more effective as the legislators feel that close proximity to their constituents.

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    How best to contact Congress Critters

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    If you have an issue you wish to contact your elected reps on, do it with a phone call or write a letter. Do not send a form letter, fax or have a pre-recorded message do it for you.
    I was at a meeting in D.C> where the Chief of Staff of one "Critter" told us that the best way to contact a "Critter" (he called them Congressmen) was to send a FAX.

    His argument was that letters take forever to get there because of postal issues post the anthrax mess.

    E-mails are too automated and impersonal.

    An original letter, FAXed, gets attention. And the original can be sent too by regular mail.

    I would tend to agree with the point about not sending pre-recorded stuff or "chain letter" text.

    Be original. Use your own words. Be formal, unless you personally know the individual.

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    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    I have often wondered the same thing. Although it is better to personally talk to your rep, Numbers did have a real good success rate on the illegal immigration issues, and a "send your rep a fax" even gets the lazy people off their collective rear.
    Personally I think it is a great idea that would not cost too much to implement and could yield good results, seems as though the NRA would want to jump on that bandwagon.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

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    Member Array bigiceman's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback on that. I do always try to mail a letter, but the fax is an easy and quick way for the message to get through also. I do want numbers so faxing would be a good option.

    If you guys do think that faxing is a good option please do let the NRA-ILA know. I have done so and the more people who do may wake them up. This would be especially true if the method was available for non-members as well.
    But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
    "Baa."
    LTC(RET) Dave Grossman

    Revolutionary War Veterans Association Shooter Qualification: Cook

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    Senior Member Array walvord's Avatar
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    I use NumbersUSA all the time and get written responses back from Kenny Hulshof, Kit Bond, and (drum roll please) Claire McCaskel unbelievably enough. So, yes they do read the faxes and respond to their constituents. I think it would work good for us also.
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    I really don't know how much impact my e-mails have but I usually receive a response.

    John Mica usually sends a letter. But, he always votes "my" way.

    Mel Martinez sometimes sends an e-mail. When the subject is illegal immigration he doesn't respond. He did support the Hutchinson brief.

    Bill Nelson is hopeless. If you want to know haw this turd voted just check Harry Reid's votes. He does some things for veterans but he seems to believe the Second Amendment secures the governments right to take and keep your arms.

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    Senior Member Array CEW58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walvord View Post
    I use NumbersUSA all the time and get written responses back from Kenny Hulshof, Kit Bond, and (drum roll please) Claire McCaskel unbelievably enough. So, yes they do read the faxes and respond to their constituents. I think it would work good for us also.
    I use NumbersUSA myself and like you, I get letters from my Congressmen. Those faxes are being read by someone on their staff!
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    Quote Originally Posted by CEW58 View Post
    I use NumbersUSA myself and like you, I get letters from my Congressmen. Those faxes are being read by someone on their staff!

    Same here
    When outnumbered 2 to 1.
    Shoot twice!
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    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gopher View Post
    Same here
    +1 I too have received letters back from my Representatives after a fax I sent through numbers.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

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