Montana And D.C. vs Heller (MERGED) - Page 2

Montana And D.C. vs Heller (MERGED)

This is a discussion on Montana And D.C. vs Heller (MERGED) within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; This definitely sounds like they are setting the stage for secession. I can honestly say I don't know how I feel about that - but ...

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  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    This definitely sounds like they are setting the stage for secession. I can honestly say I don't know how I feel about that - but it could be pretty dangerous territory. It would be best for Montana, from a federal government POV, to clearify publicly exactly what they mean.
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    "It is enough to note, as we have observed, that the American people have considered the handgun to be the quintessential self-defense weapon." - Justice Scalia, SCOTUS - DC v Heller - 26 JUN 2008


  2. #17
    Senior Member Array jualdeaux's Avatar
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    Ohio Constitution

    this is the fourth right listed.

    BEARING ARMS; STANDING ARMIES; MILITARY POWER.
    4 The people have the right to bear arms for their
    defense and security; but standing armies, in time of
    peace, are dangerous to liberty, and shall not be kept
    up; and the military shall be in strict subordination to
    the civil power.
    (1851)

    I also like the second right listed.

    RIGHT TO ALTER, REFORM, OR ABOLISH GOVERNMENT, AND
    REPEAL SPECIAL PRIVILEGES.
    2 All political power is inherent in the people. Gov-
    ernment is instituted for their equal protection and ben-
    efi t, and they have the right to alter, reform, or abol-
    ish the same, whenever they may deem it necessary;
    and no special privileges or immunities shall ever be
    granted, that may not be altered, revoked, or repealed
    by the General Assembly.
    (1851)

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Crunch View Post
    I don't know if we're making plans to secede, just in case.
    Well hell than I won't have to move that far to get out of the country. I would definitely move.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowsbane View Post
    And our government has a very long history of following contracts it has signed in the past.
    Oh no you did not say that. Seriously? You may not have heard this Ask any Indian if you can trust the Government. There is a reason its a clique. I love my country and the People in it but I don't trust my government as far as I can throw it. Worst we all have good cause to fear it.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  4. #19
    Senior Member Array jualdeaux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    Well hell than I won't have to move that far to get out of the country. I would definitely move.


    Oh no you did not say that. Seriously? You may not have heard this Ask any Indian if you can trust the Government. There is a reason its a clique. I love my country and the People in it but I don't trust my government as far as I can throw it. Worst we all have good cause to fear it.
    I'm thinking Shadow made that post in jest.

  5. #20
    Member Array RebelKangaroo's Avatar
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    Texas Constitution:

    Section 23 - RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS
    Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime.

    Also from the Texas Constitution:

    Section 2 - INHERENT POLITICAL POWER; REPUBLICAN FORM OF GOVERNMENT
    All political power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority, and instituted for their benefit. The faith of the people of Texas stands pledged to the preservation of a republican form of government, and, subject to this limitation only, they have at all times the inalienable right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as they may think expedient.

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array Shadowsbane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    Well hell than I won't have to move that far to get out of the country. I would definitely move.


    Oh no you did not say that. Seriously? You may not have heard this Ask any Indian if you can trust the Government. There is a reason its a clique. I love my country and the People in it but I don't trust my government as far as I can throw it. Worst we all have good cause to fear it.
    Peace be with you friend, that was a sarcastic statement. I know my history and of the blood that was spilt over it's pages.

    But that history has shown that if Montana (or anyother state)were to theoretically withdraw from the nation it would only end in one way. Tears. There is just not enough support from the people. Not withstanding the fact that Montana contains a large number of ICBMs and the Federal Government tends to care about that sort of thing. This is a nice theory and a good show for an election year but nothing more.

    There are too many sheeple that want control over freedom. If that were not the case this nation wouldn't be in the state it is in now.
    Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

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  7. #22
    Senior Member Array gwhall57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Crunch View Post

    I don't know if we're making plans to secede, just in case.
    If I remember my history, the last time states tried to secede didn't turn out all that well.....
    "Bad spellers of the world - untie!"

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  8. #23
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Sometimes it is worth doing things that won't turn out so well.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowsbane View Post
    Peace be with you friend, that was a sarcastic statement. I know my history and of the blood that was spilt over it's pages.
    Sorry, I'm a dork, and yes you are right. Though, I was talking about our current situation more than history
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    I think the SCOTUS will be compelled to rule in our favor; I say this not because of the ramifications of how this will affect states rights, but rather how it will affect the bill of rights itself. this is why so many of the traditionally "liberal" scholars like Sanford Levinson here in Texas are actually weighing in on our side, because they see the inherent danger in a "collective view" regarding the bill of rights. Such an opinion on just one keystone amendment like the second would change everything and set us down the path of european-style socialism.

    No matter what they say in print, the constitutional scholars in this country all know deep down inside that the 1st and second amendments to our constitution occupy the top slots for a reason.

    They stand to enforce all of the others........
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  11. #26
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    this Montana contract thing is an interesting turn of events. It seems perfectly clear to me that 2A is individual, and was meant to be individual when created. It was not until recently that there was any question. To that end, it doesn't surprise me that people keep coming up with historical documents (and contracts of statehood!) that support individual view.
    "a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility" - Bill Clinton 2010.

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array digitalexplr's Avatar
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    Missouri Constitution

    Article 1, Section 23 of the Missouri Constitution:

    Section 23. That the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or when lawfully summoned in aid of the civil power, shall not be questioned; but this shall not justify the wearing of concealed weapons.

  13. #28
    Member Array tabsr's Avatar
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    Cool Moving

    Maybe the FlatHead lake region, but need to keep the californian liberals out.
    "Politicians and Bureaucrats, depend very much on the complicity of their victims, and like criminals, are flummoxed when we don't play the victim role."

  14. #29
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    No, Montana will not secede. No, the Federal government will not confiscate our firearms.

    The fact is that the Supreme Court decision will have virtually no effect. It will not strike down any law; it will not invalidate any standing law. It is merely an opinion.

    No matter how erudite, no matter how verbose, no matter how authoritative, the Supreme Court cannot change the easy to understand words of the Second Amendment. All they can do is to either strike or uphold a lower court opinion. In the final analysis, the people of Washington DC or any state, decide what local laws apply. In DC, they decided to elect a crackhead mayor and ban guns. The Constitution is clear. You can elect a crackhead mayor and the Federal government cannot infringe on the right to keep and bear arms.

    If the people of DC want the law changed then CHANGE THE LAW.

    Why would anyone abdicate the power of the people to the faux authority of nine Americans in robes, accountable to no one?

  15. #30
    Ex Member Array DOGOFWAR01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RebelKangaroo View Post
    Texas Constitution:

    Section 23 - RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS
    Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime.

    Also from the Texas Constitution:

    Section 2 - INHERENT POLITICAL POWER; REPUBLICAN FORM OF GOVERNMENT
    All political power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority, and instituted for their benefit. The faith of the people of Texas stands pledged to the preservation of a republican form of government, and, subject to this limitation only, they have at all times the inalienable right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as they may think expedient.

    1871, Texas passed a law to stop the open carry of handguns except while traveling overnight across a county line, this might not be exact but is close. Probably pushed through by Carpetbaggers that went South after the Civil War.

    this part needs to be deleted:
    "but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime"

    Bad guys do not care what the Constitution says.

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