Practical effect of AWB?

Practical effect of AWB?

This is a discussion on Practical effect of AWB? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Since we can't be sure what a new AWB (federal level) will say for sure, I'm asking this about the old one. I can assume ...

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Thread: Practical effect of AWB?

  1. #1
    Member Array dang.45's Avatar
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    Practical effect of AWB?

    Since we can't be sure what a new AWB (federal level) will say for sure, I'm asking this about the old one. I can assume any new one will be at least as bad...

    Did the now-expired AWB prohibit just the sale of banned weapons, or the possession of them as well? I assume it was the former and not the latter... Assuming my assumption is correct, did it ban private sales of banned weapons / magazines / accessories as well?

    My goal is to try to determine whether or not there is any realistic chance of the government attempting to confiscate any "banned" weapons I might have should a new bill be passed. I'd love to get some type of AR variant, a SA SOCOM, and at least one handgun with a higher-than-10 round magazine over the next few years - if I were to scrape together the money before the end of the year to buy all that I want, is there any way I could somehow lose either the ability to ever use the things I have paid for, or the guns & magazines themselves?

    I suspect there would be a grandfather clause, but I just don't know. I was an ignorant, young college kid when the first AWB was passed in '94, and I didn't really start taking my own self-defense seriously until after it expired in '04, so I basically missed that entire discussion.

    Thanks for any and all input!
    "It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had a right to choose: his own." - John Galt, from Atlas Shrugged


  2. #2
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    IIRC, the ban only applied to new sales. Anything in existence before the ban was still available for sale, either from a "legitimate" store or person-to-person. The practical effect was to drive the price of "pre-ban" firearms and magazines through the roof.

    As to what a future AWB might hold, no one can say. It may ban the ownership of such weapons/mags outright, in which case it would be a case of "turn 'em all in." Or, maybe it won't. Hopefully, the utter failure of the '94 ban to have any effect on crime whatsoever - and the political fallout for its supporters - will prevent further insanity along those lines. But, then again, these are politicians we're talking about - insanity seems to be their natural state of being.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    IIRC, the ban only applied to new sales. Anything in existence before the ban was still available for sale, either from a "legitimate" store or person-to-person. The practical effect was to drive the price of "pre-ban" firearms and magazines through the roof.

    As to what a future AWB might hold, no one can say. It may ban the ownership of such weapons/mags outright, in which case it would be a case of "turn 'em all in." Or, maybe it won't. Hopefully, the utter failure of the '94 ban to have any effect on crime whatsoever - and the political fallout for its supporters - will prevent further insanity along those lines. But, then again, these are politicians we're talking about - insanity seems to be their natural state of being.
    I won't comment on the legality of seizures, even D.C. had to allow existing hand guns to remain, but prevented transfer to other residents.

    Similarly, under the AWB, weapons manufactured prior to the AWB were fine. Hence the term "pre-ban".

    If you are a private party, you can buy just the lower and be fine. It's a pre-ban weapon (whatever you build from it, using the AR-15 as an example).

    If you are a manufacturer, the gun must be assembled/manufactured pre-ban. If manufacturers are forward thinking, they'll be using all their lowers to assemble complete handguns and rifles and the availability of lowers will start to decline (using ar-15's as an example again).

    Magazines are the same, you couldn't take a post-ban mag an put the spring/guide/etc. to make it a pre-ban, but you can do as you please with your pre-ban mag.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

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    Siezures, in general, have legal precedent though they are rare without (at least) some sort of grandfather clause. I'm not saying that this will happen if and when any new AWB is passed (I don't think even the most rabid anti- thinks they could get away with it) but it's theoretically possible.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    Senior Member Array glock21guy's Avatar
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    One thing you can almost bet on is a new ban will not have a sunset date. And I would guess styles or actions, if this makes senses, will be included. Not just features, like flash suppressor, pistol grips, and the all horrifying bayonet lug.

    Like any three features in combination make the rifle more deadly. As the 94 alluded to.
    Aaron

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    Member Array micpl's Avatar
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    Here's the proposed bill...

    GovTrack: H.R. 1022: Text of Legislation

    IMHO confiscation is a political impossibility at this point. Their strategy seems to be to chip away at the 2A gently enough to avoid causing a backlash. If they have a plan that included proposing confiscation it is probably many years away.

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    Member Array micpl's Avatar
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    By the way, the part I find scariest in the new bill is SEC 3.A.30.a.L:

    A semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General. In making the determination, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any Federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event.'.

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    If they push another AWB, as posted above they will try it WITHOUT a sunset.

    As to the 1st AWB, a few things occurred.

    -The magazine limit of 10 rounds, caused a push for smaller pistols. Manufactures came out with all sorts of 'pocket' guns. (One example.....That's the reason the sub-compact Glocks came about.) This caused an increase in the concealment of handguns, they were smaller & easier to conceal. Also an increase in states that allowed CCW! We now have 2 states that are 'UNRESTRICTED', 37that are 'SHALL ISSUE', 9 that are 'MAY ISSUE', to only TWO that are 'RESTRICTED! This would never have happened otherwise. (This was the ONLY good thing to occur from the 1st AWB!)

    -It caused a run on existing firearms that would be effected. Prices on pre-ban weapons/ magazines exploded.

    -It made manufacturer's find ways around it. For instance they removed the bayonet lug (One of those evil accessories, that a crime with NEVER occurred!). The changed the flash hider to a compensator or removed it entirely (another evil acc. that never caused a crime). They changed the collapsible or folding stock to a fix one. (Sometimes they just pinned the collapsible one.) The evil pistol grip was replaced with a 'sporter' style stock. (Like a thumbhole.)

    None of these things really made any difference to the firearm other than how it looked.

    The banner's also relied on the media & the 'le in society to think that all of the 'assault weapons' were full-auto, so they went along as well.

    Since we will more than likely have a liberal in the White House (who will also be picking at least 2 more Supreme's). We will also have a liberal House & Senate. Another AWB is almost a given, as to IF it gets passed.....I don't know???? The next AWB, will be more encompassing & will not have the 'mistakes' the anti's made in the first one. They have learned from their mistakes in the first one & will be more able to push another, since they will control all three branches of government.

    The result: Congress SCOTUSPOTUS
    Last edited by goawayfarm; February 24th, 2008 at 06:39 PM.
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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    I agree with the above poster on everything. Confiscation? A somewhat dim possibility in my opinion. I also believe if that were to happen, it would likely be a bloodbath. I'm willing to die for some of my ideals, and I'm sure others are as well. So long as others understand this fact, we might be able to keep that scenario in check.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    The statements in HR1022 are pretty clear and in plain English.
    There is no guesswork and no need to look back to AWB I which isn't relevant anyway considering AWB II is different in language and more restrictive.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

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  11. #11
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    Come and take away weapons? In the South?

    I don't think so...
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    I'd like to play devil's advocate for a moment........

    Just imagine what will happen IF SCOTUS finds against Hellar?

    This will really energize the anti's. They will then push as much anti legislation as they can come with.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

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    Member Array Mass-Diver's Avatar
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    I think confiscation is very unlikely. Outlawing transfers between individuals is real possible.

    The new bill (as posted in this thread) will be much tougher than the old and will outlaw many, many semi-autos. The new AWB will be sold as follows "The old bill didn't work because the manufactors found loopholes, this time we closed all the loopholes."


    It would seem like the thing to do would be stock up. We still have plenty of time (at least until November).

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array Shizzlemah's Avatar
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    Confiscation... I'm not sure how that would go down. Even with NFA, there was a free registation period. Same when the Street Sweeper, et al, were NFA'd.

    It is not like they could just buy them back. $50 isn't going to be in the ballpark of any guns I own. Book value? Well book value goes out the window when they are outlawed (thus the value becomes zero)


    The volstead act was a little before my time, but I believe it banned manufacture and sale but not possession/consumption.

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  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mass-Diver View Post
    ...
    It would seem like the thing to do would be stock up. We still have plenty of time (at least until November).
    Agreed on all points but one.
    I'm thinking not Election Day but Inauguration Day; Jan. 20, 2009.
    On that day the clock resets to zero hour and begins to count up. From then it's just a matter of time...

    - Janq plans to buy a lot of various type, style, and purpose 'pre-ban II' long guns and spare magazines this year
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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