New Orleans Begins GUN CONFISCATIONS of Legally Owned Civilian Weapons

This is a discussion on New Orleans Begins GUN CONFISCATIONS of Legally Owned Civilian Weapons within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by P95Carry Not sure quite how I feel - but whatever it is it ain't good. Almost like this could be seen as ...

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Thread: New Orleans Begins GUN CONFISCATIONS of Legally Owned Civilian Weapons

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array BlueLion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry
    Not sure quite how I feel - but whatever it is it ain't good.

    Almost like this could be seen as a ''dry run'' - for ''future operations''. There WILL be some nasty episodes I think - and there will be ''from my cold dead hands'' sad to say.
    Yes Sir, I am with 95 here if they take your ability to defend yourself then they take your ability to be free.
    Listen, Think and React.....Nuff Said.....

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  3. #32
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    Thanks TheGreatGonzo for your account of how LE is handling the gun issue in NO. I do agree with P95 they are my thoughts also. In addition I would add by shipping in LEO from places like NYC there is a great bias there because people don't have many rights in NYC especially gun rights. So a strong bias would exist when LEO comes from unfriendly carry rights states. It would be helpful for our forum to hear from other officers to get their view on things, nothing to do with your reporting but it would help to tell people about our police officers on the job. Take care and don't drink or fall in the water.
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  4. #33
    Member Array armoredman's Avatar
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    Take care, sir. I will state I have seen video of two different groups taking law abiding citizens firearms, and in one case, restraining them while thier house is searched, and then releasing them after thier weapons have been confiscated. That's kinda cut and dried evidence, that will stand up very well in a court of law, IMHO, whatever that's worth around here.
    If total government control equals safety, why are prisons so dangerous?

  5. #34
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Well, I have not seen the video, so I cannot say. When I see it, I can make a little better judgement. Until then, I will go with what I see with my own two peepers. Video, like a reporter's story, must be taken in context. If people are violating citizen's rights outside of the law, they must be held accountable. Meanwhile, almost every cop/soldier here is doing heroic work, in grotesque conditions, but nobody wants to discuss that. Then again, that is the way it always goes. Well, time to go back to work. I'm one of those whacky evangelical Christians you always read about the press, so I will go ahead and ask that you please pray for the folks down here...citizens, soldiers, emergency workers, and everyone else.
    Gonzo
    PS - Once again, I feel I must add this caveat: I COMPLETELY SUPPORT the right of law abiding citizens to own, carry, and defend themselves with firearms!!! That HAS NOT and WILL NOT change!
    Last edited by TheGreatGonzo; September 10th, 2005 at 12:00 PM.
    "Skin that smokewagon!".

  6. #35
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    Gonzo,

    I respect what you are doing and I agree with your thought process. I am also LE, but I've always been a PT LEO (18 years as a Special PO for my town and 6 years as a Constable), so my experiences are much more limited.

    I have seen actual video footage and interviews/audio from two very disturbing events down there involving LE and armed citizens in their homes. Coming from MA, I am not familiar with the badges/patches from other parts of the country so I have no idea what PD these officers were from. I can say that the video/audio that I saw is VERY DISTURBING to me both as LE and a citizen who believes in the 2nd Amendment.

    Incident #1 (shown on Fox News as LE/news media broke into a home):
    - House was in the dry part of town, never had any water in it, streets were NOT flooded here and thus don't have the muck or other conditions that would necessitate evacuation.
    - House was a small mansion compared to other homes we've seen down there. Owners were in the house and well prepared, little visible damage to home and they may have said that they still had running water (don't precisely recall).
    - Homeowners had a stockpile of food, water and guns to ward off looters. As the LEOs entered (with Fox News cameras), NO weapons were shown pointing at any of the responding LEOs.
    - Homeowners were shown and described as being handcuffed and forced to sit on the curb while LE took all their guns from the home.
    - They tried to talk the people into leaving, they refused, claiming (rightfully so) that they wanted to defend (with nothing now) what they owned and were not in any danger from flood, pestilence, etc.
    - They were interviewed and expressed dismay that LE would leave them defenseless in their own homes.
    - They were then released to stay and fend for themselves, but now defenseless!

    Incident #2 (shown on Fox News and some other (ABC/NBC/CBS) media:
    - Frail elderly lady obviously in her 70s cornered by LE after they broke into her home. She was cornered in the kitchen beside her stove and had a revolver in her lap.
    - Video showed 3 officers pouncing on her, disarming her, confiscating the gun and dragging her out of the house.
    - This lady reminded me of my late Mother-in-law in the last years of her life. No way that she was any match to fight with anyone and only the gun might save her if looters had invaded her home.
    - She was definitely man-handled in an inappropriate manner based on her physical condition and lack of threat to anyone else.

    This was a case where "you had to see it to believe it" and the video/audio tells a tale that is not complimentary to LE, at least those that actually participated in these events. Hopefully this only happened a few times, but that was still a few times too many.

    Making life more interesting:

    - The Gov stated (broadcast on Fox News) unequivocally that there is NO STATE OF MARTIAL LAW and that ONLY she can declare it as such!
    - The Gov also stated that there were NO mandatory evacuations and again only she could call for that.
    - The Police Chief claims that there is Martial Law and nobody but LE (and private security) can keep any guns!
    - The Mayor and Police Chief either stated or implied that there was Martial Law (they declared it) and mandatory evacuations!

    To those of us "on the outside", watching these interviews of officials, it is massively confusing and shows that NOBODY is in charge, they aren't all on the same page. God knows what the "boots on the ground" have been told to do or not do. I have no idea who has the legal authority to declare what down there. It is apparent that the US Constitution has been thrown out the window for good down there. Personally I have absolutely NO confidence that any confiscated guns will ever be returned to their rightful owners once everything settles down - nothing I saw indicated that they were inventorying anything or giving receipts and the mass confusion tells me that even if they did do that, nothing would be recorded at the PD for later accountability. At the top it looks like a lot of egotistical "leadership" that are into "power plays" to "show their stuff". It certainly doesn't play well, even on mass media.

    Bottom line is that there are at least some LEOs that should be ashamed of themselves for disarming genteel people who are only armed in their homes to protect what little they have. That nobody should be dragged out of their homes unless they really, truly are in a life-threatening situation (property high and dry with food and water doesn't fit this description).

    All of us have to realize a few things:

    - If your home is looted, the police take your property, etc. your homeowners insurance company will NOT PAY! There is an exclusion in every policy for such actions.

    - So if you survived the storm (e.g. wealthy family noted above), then are forced out by LE, looters come in and destroy everything, you are SOL and uninsured!

    - The folks being told that they had to leave their pets to die if evacuated also led to understandable belligerence from residents. I haven't had a pet dog since I was a small child but I fully understand that they are "family" and not to be left behind to die!

    NO has shown us a very ugly side of life, that is likely to be repeated in almost any true state of emergency . . . leaving people defenseless (no matter how well armed/prepared we started out) and in a lot worse circumstances than if we were left to our own resources!

  7. #36
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    LenS,
    Thanks for telling me the details about the video taped incidents. It breaks my heart. We welcomed out-of-state officers to the Gulf because they came to help. I know that most of them intend to, and have done nothing but, help. However, it would appear that some of them are doing more damage than good. If these videos are accurate, it means people are being illegally disarmed at a time that they need the most defensive options. I understand that the City of New Orleans is faced with a time of desperation, but trampling the Constitution is not the answer. Very, very sad indeed. All I ask of you folks is that you PLEASE, PLEASE remember that the vast majority of LEO's here (local, state, federal, and visiting)....the VAST majority...would not, and are not, participating in disarming citizens. They (we) are here to defend life, limb, and liberty as best we can and to try and help the victims (a category that includes many of us). Don't paint all the LEO's here with a broad brush.
    Gonzo
    "Skin that smokewagon!".

  8. #37
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    Gonzo,

    As a responsible and ethical LEO, the following is no doubt going to make you sick to your stomach. Maybe someone needs to *****-slap those CHPs who are "helping you" in NO?

    Here's the video of the elderly lady being disarmed and man-handled by CHPs (CA Highway Patrol) in NO. [This is the incident I described above.] This video is much more comprehensive than what I had seen on Fox News and one of the network news shows broadcast back here in Boston.

    "NEW ORLEANS: Ken Wayne Reports On Dramatic Forced Evacuations"
    http://www.ktvu.com/video/4946889/detail.html

    If that isn't over the top, I don't know what is. Just love the reporter with his justification that although she's elderly and no threat, "a gun is a gun"! Notice how she holds the gun and knife. Not safety-minded, but nowhere near a threatening pose.

  9. #38
    Senior Member Array tanksoldier's Avatar
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    Man, I'm not sure I could let them do that if it was me and mine.

    I know it's a big step to take, but...

    In any case I hope somebody sues their pants off.


    Edit: Just wrote the govenor and attorney general's public information office emails asking them what the legal basis was for the confiscations. I don't expect and answer, but it might be interesting to see what they say.
    Last edited by tanksoldier; September 11th, 2005 at 12:06 AM.
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  10. #39
    Senior Member Array CombatEffective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter
    I did not know that & that makes a huge difference to me.
    I don't ever like to see cops slip up.
    Honestly...I was never too impressed by the Orleans PD regardless.
    Even before Katrina.
    I think the whole damn town is slightly crooked from the Mayor on down.
    That's just my (gut feeling) opinion though & I sure hope I'm wrong about it.


    "As a cop, I was very ticked of about such behavior about other cops, then I got the entire story on it. The film was edited, in at least one instance, to show what looked to be cops pilfering alongside looters. It turns out that there were cops in a Walmart getting some items and were caught on film. What the film doesn't show is that the cops were getting food items because they hadn't eaten in days either and were actually given orders to find food wherever they can find it. That being said I am sure that some officers probably did take part in blatant thievery, and I don't defend or tolerate that."

    You are CORRECT. The NOPD has long been considered just as corrupt as the rest of the government down there. They once brought in a chief from Birmingham that was a well known reformer with a track record of getting large police organizations on the straight and narrow. That guy wasn't there long before he pronounced the situation there as being hopelessly unfixable and he left in a hurry.
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  11. #40
    Senior Member Array Free American's Avatar
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    I find this hard to believe, you cannot suspend law without legislation. They can try, but if you know the law you can stand up and say I'm taking my guns and going!
    They who give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin


    Previously known as "cjm5874"

  12. #41
    Senior Member Array tanksoldier's Avatar
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    That's true, the question is (when in this situation) and you're saying "I'm keeping my guns" and the NOPD is standing there saying "No you're not" how far are you willing to go to keep them? Are you willing to throw down with the NOPD over your gun rights?




    Quote Originally Posted by cjm5874
    I find this hard to believe, you cannot suspend law without legislation. They can try, but if you know the law you can stand up and say I'm taking my guns and going!
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

  13. #42
    Administrative Ban Array Bruces45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanksoldier
    That's true, the question is (when in this situation) and you're saying "I'm keeping my guns" and the NOPD is standing there saying "No you're not" how far are you willing to go to keep them? Are you willing to throw down with the NOPD over your gun rights?
    I would be... Remember that cold dead finger statement? Like I said in another post this situation is bound to get realy ugly. I don't know about anyone else but my gun collection is the second most valuable thing I have, (first is my house) and I'll be damned if I would let someone just take them from me. Quite a few of the guns I have are family heirlooms and I would NEVER let anyone take them from me.

  14. #43
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanksoldier
    That's true, the question is (when in this situation) and you're saying "I'm keeping my guns" and the NOPD is standing there saying "No you're not" how far are you willing to go to keep them? Are you willing to throw down with the NOPD over your gun rights?
    The old lady was dealing with CA Hwy Patrol (CHP). If she tried to resist, I wouldn't have been surprised if they shot her. They way they shouted "she has a gun, she has a gun" when she was handling it in a way that it was useless as a weapon against them . . . they were "setting her up" in case they did shoot her. They could then claim that she was armed (true) and that they were in fear of their lives (a very long stretch but likely to fly in the given circumstances). Regardless, she'd be dead!

    My experience in LE tells me that if you "disagree" it is best to comply and then make an issue of it later. Problem with current situation is that she needs that gun NOW or she's likely to be robbed and murdered by the thugs roaming the streets. So complaining later may not do any good . . . she still could be dead!

    It is NEVER smart to belligerently face off an armed group of officers, even if you are right!

  15. #44
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    Perhaps to many people watching the police actions in NOL it means nothing but I believe it woke up a whole bunch of people regardless if they have a gun or not. I can no longer view the CHP with the same respect as I once did. Yes they had a job to do but maybe allowing the women a day or so to think about her position may have greased the way for her to just leave. I sense that LE is fast changing to SWAT tactics pretty fast as the normal way of doing business.
    As you slide down the banister of life,
    May the splinters never point the wrong way.
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  16. #45
    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    Gonzo, There are rumors down here on the gulf coast that 300-400 NOPD have not(or did not) report for duty after the winds deminished. Can you tell us if you've heard or know anything about this. I repeat,this is what I'm hearing in the diners and coffee shops. I have neither read it in print or heard it on TV or radio. Thank you sir.---------

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