New Orleans Begins GUN CONFISCATIONS of Legally Owned Civilian Weapons

This is a discussion on New Orleans Begins GUN CONFISCATIONS of Legally Owned Civilian Weapons within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; The only way I think we'll make any serious impression after the fact is if somebody does stand on their rights, and we end up ...

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Thread: New Orleans Begins GUN CONFISCATIONS of Legally Owned Civilian Weapons

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array tanksoldier's Avatar
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    The only way I think we'll make any serious impression after the fact is if somebody does stand on their rights, and we end up with a martyr.
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

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  3. #47
    Senior Member Array CombatEffective's Avatar
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    ... and IIRC, the ex parte Milligan ruling held that martial law can't be imposed if the civilian authorities are still functioning. While they may not be functioning effectively, the civilian authorities are still "functioning" there.
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  4. #48
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjm5874
    I find this hard to believe, you cannot suspend law without legislation. They can try, but if you know the law you can stand up and say I'm taking my guns and going!
    Sure you can and the law is already in place! There are two methods (remember I TEACH American Government): You can evoke a State of Emergency at the State Level by order of the Governor, and declare Martial LAW. That hasn't been done according to a declaration by the Governor, but it seems tro have been lost on the Mayor of NO who took it upon himself to violate both the state and federal Constitutions.

    Second the President can trigger the national emergency Executive Orders, in place since the 1950's which totally suspends the US Constitutionand has a whole slew of unpleasant consequences.
    Last edited by Bumper; September 13th, 2005 at 09:20 PM. Reason: Tinfoil removed
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  5. #49
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSSZ
    Gonzo, There are rumors down here on the gulf coast that 300-400 NOPD have not(or did not) report for duty after the winds deminished. Can you tell us if you've heard or know anything about this. I repeat,this is what I'm hearing in the diners and coffee shops. I have neither read it in print or heard it on TV or radio. Thank you sir.---------
    Well, I'm not a City of New Orleans Police Officer, so I don't know the specifics. I do have several friends who are, however (yes...there are plenty of honest, ethical, hardworking Police Officers in New Orleans), and the last I heard, there were somewhere between 250 - 300 sworn personnel unaccounted for. Only a small number of those had been confirmed as having resigned on the spot (fled) or turned up in locations outside of the City without officially resigning (fled). The status of the majority is unknown. Many are feared among the dead, but at this point, nobody really knows.
    Gonzo
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  6. #50
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Militarization of Police

    Quote Originally Posted by FortyFive
    Perhaps to many people watching the police actions in NOL it means nothing but I believe it woke up a whole bunch of people regardless if they have a gun or not. I can no longer view the CHP with the same respect as I once did. Yes they had a job to do but maybe allowing the women a day or so to think about her position may have greased the way for her to just leave. I sense that LE is fast changing to SWAT tactics pretty fast as the normal way of doing business.
    This is a frightening process that was accelerated by both Bush #41 and Clinton. One part is "Toys for Boys" and involves free government giveaways of military equipment to local government. A sheriff with a computer and government access can literally buy M16's, WITH M-203s and the grenades to go along...everything up to and including Huey Choppers complete. Even if they don't have pilots or hangars! I read in the Miami Herald a few years ago; one small town in central FL with about 24 sworn officers (eight per shift?) has 50 M16's a like number of H&K MP5's; all kinds of stuff. They freely admit there hasn't been a riot much less a murder in the town for as long as there has been a town charter...but hey if the FEDS are giving stuff away why not? The trouble is, the FEDS never give stuff away. There are always....strings.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  7. #51
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FortyFive
    Thanks TheGreatGonzo for your account of how LE is handling the gun issue in NO. I do agree with P95 they are my thoughts also. In addition I would add by shipping in LEO from places like NYC there is a great bias there because people don't have many rights in NYC especially gun rights. So a strong bias would exist when LEO comes from unfriendly carry rights states. It would be helpful for our forum to hear from other officers to get their view on things, nothing to do with your reporting but it would help to tell people about our police officers on the job. Take care and don't drink or fall in the water.
    The water isn't that bad...you just have to chew it really well before you swallow. :c)

    Having Officers from anti-gun areas is definitely an issue. I had a discussion with several Illinois State Troopers who were very concerned because they heard that "everyone down here carries a gun". I explained that out here in the "boonies", an armed citizen is often your closest, best, and perhaps only, back-up. They were nice guys, and I appreciated their presence, but they had a lot of trouble understanding that. The issued of "training" kept coming up, and I told them that many of my non-LEO friends who CCW had more extensive training (all voluntary and at their own expense, as opposed to mandatory and "on the clock") than most LEO's I work with. I did not get the impression (at all) that these fella's wanted to go out and collect guns, but they just could not get comfortable with the idea of civilians with guns. I think it is important to note that none of the confiscation incidents that have been reported involve NOPD Officers or any Southern cops (as I have stated, most every MS and LA cop I know, to include NOPD, is very gun friendly), nor do they involve any federal LEO's. Federal LEO's and military troops have been instructed not to participate in any mandatory evacuations. Sadly, in many areas where street cops are anti-gun, it is based on ignorance and fed down by the bosses (Chiefs of Police and elected Sheriffs). Take Chicago for instance...you would be shocked how many street cops in Chicago favor civilian CCW. But you will never, ever hear it from their Chief, the Cook County Sheriff, or any of their cronies.
    Just my humble (and very, very tired) opinion,
    Gonzo
    "Skin that smokewagon!".

  8. #52
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    ExSoldier,
    I agree that the over-militarization of civilian police can be a problem. However, that being said, I do believe that the average officer/agent on the street has every right to be as well armed as the criminals we face. I have personally taken full-auto weapons and carbines (to include at least 3 gov't issue M-16's...stolen, of course), so I don't feel "overarmed" in carrying a carbine or a subgun. However, I don't get out of the car every day with a carbine slung over my shoulder and I don't effect every arrest with a subgun stuck in the bad guy's face. It is completely dependent upon the situation. I'm not ready to go to the British style of "unarmed policing". I certainly don't consider an armed law abiding citizen to be a threat (indeed, I consider them to be comforting to have around), but the bad guns are armed also (oddly enough, they don't seem to respect the gun laws that prohibit them from using them).
    Gonzo
    "Skin that smokewagon!".

  9. #53
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    Gonzo - hope you get some (much needed) rest and sleep.

    I have to say a profound thx for many reasons. First off you are giving some invaluable feedback and second - you are (thank heaven) my kind of cop - with a devotion to 2A and fair play - please ensure you produce as many clones of self as possible.

    I say again dude - stay safe.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  10. #54
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Thank you kind sir. My devotion to freedom of gun ownership and fair play goes far beyond my badge. I am a human being first, a father and husband second, a citizen third, and being a cop fall somewhere down the line. There are many things that can be taken away from me, however nobody can take my integrity...I can only give it away.

    As for cloning myself...well, that would not be fair at all. With thousands of dashing, good-looking, heroic ******** like me running around, you normal folk would never have a chance. I would steal your women and your dogs would become devoted to me. I would not feel right doing that to you guys.
    Gonzo

    PS - This is Foamy the Squirrel's rant about Katrina and New Orleans. I will warn you up front...the language is bad. But I almost peed my pants laughing when I heard it.

    http://www.wimp.com/e/katrinarant/
    "Skin that smokewagon!".

  11. #55
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    Gonzo - for some reason that link brings up a ''send friends email'' type form field!

    Ahhh - integrity - long may it live my friend - tho seems these days it is a dying attribute.

    Haha - so Gonzo clones would be a danger to us all eh LOL! OK - well my wife is ''clone-proof'' so she'll get by - but not sure about anyone else!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  12. #56
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    Try this URL instead:
    http://www.wimp.com/katrinarant/

  13. #57
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LenS
    Try this URL instead:
    http://www.wimp.com/katrinarant/

    Yes...thank you for correcting my error, kind sir.
    Gonzo
    "Skin that smokewagon!".

  14. #58
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatGonzo
    Yes...thank you for correcting my error, kind sir.
    Gonzo
    Gonzo, no need to thank me. Thank you for all that you are doing.

    Your ethics and attempts to educate officers who don't believe in the 2nd Amendment deserves our accolades!

    Get some rest and stay safe!

  15. #59
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    Defenseless On the Bayou

    http://www.reason.com/hod/dk091005.shtml

    September 10, 2005


    Defenseless On the Bayou

    New Orleans gun confiscation is foolish and illegal

    Dave Kopel



    In the nearly two weeks since Hurricane Katrina, the government of New Orleans has devolved from its traditional status as an elective kleptocracy into something far more dangerous: an anarcho-tyranny that refuses to protect the public from criminals while preventing people from protecting themselves. At the orders of New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, the New Orleans Police, the National Guard, the Oklahoma National Guard, and U.S. Marshals have begun breaking into homes at gunpoint, confiscating their lawfully-owned firearms, and evicting the residents. "No one is allowed to be armed. We're going to take all the guns," says P. Edwin Compass III, the superintendent of police.

    Last week, thousands of New Orleanians huddled in the Superdome and the Convention Center got a taste of anarcho-tyranny. Everyone entering those buildings was searched for firearms. So for a few days, they lived in a small world without guns. As in other such worlds, the weaker soon became the prey of the stronger. Tuesday's New Orleans Times-Picayune reported some of the grim results, as an Arkansas National Guardsman showed the reporter dozens of bodies rotting in a non-functional freezer.

    In the rest of the city, some police officers abandoned their posts, while others joined the looting spree. For several days, the ones who stayed on the job did not act to stop the looting that was going on right in front of them. To the extent that any homes or businesses were saved, the saviors were the many good citizens of New Orleans who defended their families, homes, and businesses with their own firearms.

    These people were operating within their legal rights. The law authorizes citizen's arrests for any felony, and in the past (in the 1964 case McKellar v. Mason), a Louisiana court held that shooting a property thief in the spine was a legitimate citizen's arrest.

    The aftermath of the hurricane has featured prominent stories of citizens legitimately defending lives and property. New Orleans lies on the north side of the Mississippi River, and the city of Algiers is on the south. The Times-Picayune detailed how dozens of neighbors in one part of Algiers had formed a militia. After a car-jacking and an attack on a home by looters, the neighborhood recognized the need for a common defense; they shared firearms, took turns on patrol, and guarded the elderly. Although the initial looting had resulted in a gun battle, once the patrols began, the militia never had to fire a shot. Likewise, the Garden District of New Orleans, one of the city's top tourist attractions, was protected by armed residents.

    The good gun-owning citizens of New Orleans and the surrounding areas ought to be thanked for helping to save some of their city after Mayor Nagin, incoherent and weeping, had fled to Baton Rouge. Yet instead these citizens are being victimized by a new round of home invasions and looting, these ones government-organized, for the purpose of firearms confiscation.

    The Mayor and Governor do have the legal authority to mandate evacuation, but failure to comply is a misdemeanor; so the authority to use force to compel evacuation goes no further than the power to effect a misdemeanor arrest. The preemptive confiscation of every private firearm in the city far exceeds any reasonable attempt to carry out misdemeanor arrests for persons who disobey orders to leave.

    Louisiana statutory law does allow some restrictions on firearms during extraordinary conditions. One statute says that after the Governor proclaims a state of emergency (as Governor Blanco has done), "the chief law enforcement officer of the political subdivision affected by the proclamation may...promulgate orders...regulating and controlling the possession, storage, display, sale, transport and use of firearms, other dangerous weapons and ammunition." But the statute does not, and could not, supersede the Louisiana Constitution, which declares that "The right of each citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged, but this provision shall not prevent the passage of laws to prohibit the carrying of weapons concealed on the person."

    The power of "regulating and controlling" is not the same as the power of "prohibiting and controlling." The emergency statute actually draws this distinction in its language, which refers to "prohibiting" price-gouging, sale of alcohol, and curfew violations, but only to "regulating and controlling" firearms. Accordingly, the police superintendent's order "prohibiting" firearms possession is beyond his lawful authority. It is an illegal order.

    Last week, we saw an awful truth in New Orleans: A disaster can bring out predators ready to loot, rampage, and pillage the moment that they have the opportunity. Now we are seeing another awful truth: There is no shortage of police officers and National Guardsmen who will obey illegal orders to threaten peaceful citizens at gunpoint and confiscate their firearms.




    Dave Kopel is Research Director of the Independence Institute.






    This page printed from: http://www.reason.com/hod/dk091005.shtml
    Keep up the good fight, pass the word, and teach others to fight back when unjustly assaulted--be it on the street or in the courtroom. Self-defense is a normal, moral act. So teach your family, friends, and students practical defense against both physical and legal marauders. by Jerry VanCook

  16. #60
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hankrearden2005
    http://www.reason.com/hod/dk091005.shtml

    At the orders of New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, the New Orleans Police, the National Guard, the Oklahoma National Guard, and U.S. Marshals have begun breaking into homes at gunpoint, confiscating their lawfully-owned firearms, and evicting the residents.

    A good and important story, but the inaccurate reporting only hurts our cause. The Mayor of New Orleans CAN NOT and HAS NOT issued orders to National Guard units from other states or US Marshals. He does not have the authority. He may be ordering the NOPD to do it, but those are the only folks he controls. Otherwise...a very thoughtful and insightful article.
    Gonzo
    "Skin that smokewagon!".

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