Do Away With Guns

This is a discussion on Do Away With Guns within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Just in case you thought the anti's were starting to give up. Do away with guns -- dailypress.com...

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Thread: Do Away With Guns

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array ronwill's Avatar
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    Do Away With Guns

    Just in case you thought the anti's were starting to give up.

    Do away with guns -- dailypress.com

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    The antis will never give up . Some have a quest for power , and some have a phobia . Neither condition lends its self to reason or a real discussion of issues .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  4. #3
    Member Array Argus's Avatar
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    Well said.

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    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    From the Richmond Times Dispatch

    Editor, Times-Dispatch:

    As a liberal, a member of the ACLU of Virginia, and a self-proclaimed student of the Constitution of this nation I was interested John Schuiteman's letter, "Safe Society Demands Tight Gun Regulation."

    The writer is correct that tightened gun regulation would probably increase public safety. However, public safety was not the concern of the drafters of the Constitution or the purpose of the Second Amendment.

    To exist in a society and interact with others brings two compelling and conflicting pressures to bear: safety and freedom. With more safety there is less freedom. With more freedom there is less safety. Benjamin Franklin noted that in our quest for safety we will threaten freedom: "Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty or security."

    The rationale for citizen gun-ownership lies in the right to overthrow one's government. Armed citizens can never be oppressed. Look at Vietnam, under both the French and the Americans. Read what limited headlines we receive from Iraq. If Eastern Europe had the right to keep and bear arms in 1939, the Holocaust might have been different. Anyone familiar with the Warsaw uprising will agree.

    If slaves had access to weapons, slavery would not have lasted as long as it did and the impact of Jim Crow laws would have been tremendously different. The defeat of the British was directly attributable to the Americans' ownership of and ability to access and use firearms. If deer had guns there would unlikely be a hunting season.

    The Framers feared oppressive governments and oppressive majorities and believed government oppression, or at least creeping restriction, was inevitable. A good government is one that never takes the allegiance of the people for granted. An armed citizenry must be appeased.

    The right to keep and bear arms is another American freedom, unique in the world and undervalued by the majority of Americans, guaranteed as our birthright, and as important to true liberty as freedom of religion, the press, and expression. To be a citizen of the United States is to treasure freedom, self-determination, and liberty above all else.

    David P. Baugh. Richmond.

    Found this 'lil gem in the comments........
    Isn't Mr. Baugh's take in this intresting?
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

    (Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay

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    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Out of touch with reality is the nicest response I can give at this time.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

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    Member Array takurpic's Avatar
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    You know, I think he might be on to something, What a great idea! Of course, we'll have to get rid of all the criminals first. Perhaps we should just do away with all people thereby eradicating potential criminals too.

    Who wants to go first? I'll volunteer Michael J. Doust of the Newport News.

    [end sarcasm]

  8. #7
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Has anyone read all the comments to that article?
    Do away with guns - Topix

    The antis will never give up . Some have a quest for power , and some have a phobia . Neither condition lends its self to reason or a real discussion of issues .
    Yeah---and they're still using up everyone else's good oxygen.

  9. #8
    Senior Member Array jeephipwr's Avatar
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    well now, if I was a criminal, I just got the name of a journalist who isn't armed. Easy pickings, unless he a hippocrite and carries like some of the other hippos.

  10. #9
    Member Array lopadrino79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    Has anyone read all the comments to that article?
    Do away with guns - Topix
    Yup I added a comment (page 7- andy from Ny). Way to fire up gun owners!!
    Yeah---and they're still using up everyone else's good oxygen.
    Yup I added a comment (page 7- andy from Ny). Way to fire up gun owners!!

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldshellback View Post
    Editor, Times-Dispatch:

    As a liberal, a member of the ACLU of Virginia, and a self-proclaimed student of the Constitution of this nation I was interested John Schuiteman's letter, "Safe Society Demands Tight Gun Regulation."

    The writer is correct that tightened gun regulation would probably increase public safety. However, public safety was not the concern of the drafters of the Constitution or the purpose of the Second Amendment.

    David P. Baugh. Richmond.

    Found this 'lil gem in the comments........
    Isn't Mr. Baugh's take in this intresting?

    Goldshellback,

    Just curious...but, where did this David Baugh get the idea that 'tightened gun regulation' would increase public safety? The CDC (I think) did a study and could not find one shred of evidence that any existing gun law reduced violence.

    England, along with several other European countries have high and increasing rates of violence and suicide, even though guns are virtually outlawed.

    Heightened gun regulations would describe Washington, D.C., always among the highest in the nation in per capita murder rates.

    I know YOU did not write this, but where do they get this stuff from?
    Could they find ONE piece of evidence from a reputable source?
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldshellback View Post
    Editor, Times-Dispatch:

    The right to keep and bear arms is another American freedom, unique in the world and undervalued by the majority of Americans, guaranteed as our birthright, and as important to true liberty as freedom of religion, the press, and expression. To be a citizen of the United States is to treasure freedom, self-determination, and liberty above all else.

    David P. Baugh. Richmond.
    Again, note the misconception...

    The right to keep and bear arms is NOT another American freedom, unique..., guaranteed as our birthright....

    These are inalienable rights, given to all by our Creator.
    We recognize these rights, try to safeguard these rights, but they are not granted to us or by anyone (other than our Creator) and cannot lawfully be taken away. Governments and idiots (did I repeat myself?)may take away our guns as a matter of practice, but they cannot take away the right.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

  13. #12
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    My response:
    Mr. Doust, I think you are a complete and utter moron whose public utterances should be immediately ceased so as to protect people from your stupidity. I suppose you'll scream your head off about this, but my sanity is far more important than your selfish claim that your First Amendement rights would be violated.
    “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia

    SIG: P220R SS Elite SAO, P220R SAO, P220R Carry, P226R Navy, P226, P239/.40S&W, P2022/.40S&W; GSR 5", P6.

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    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    I don't know what you guys are upset about. I'm all for it. If they can prove to me that mine are the last guns in the country, then I will turn them in. Or maybe I won't...after all, I would be the only one with guns....
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  15. #14
    Senior Member Array rabywk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeephipwr View Post
    well now, if I was a criminal, I just got the name of a journalist who isn't armed. Easy pickings, unless he a hippocrite and carries like some of the other hippos.
    I wouldn't be to sure of that. Most of these anti's with a voice, feel that they should be exempt from what they are preaching.
    NRA Rifle Coach
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    --- Some of the friendliest people I have ever talked to are gun owners and shooters and according to the gun activists we are the mass murders and felons of the nation???

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    "The rationale for citizen gun-ownership lies in the right to overthrow one's government." - David P. Baugh

    Wrong!!!1

    The rationale is toward a basic human right to defend ones self, his/or her children, family, home/residence, and means to survive.
    This right is applicable to all persons everywhere regardless of what govt. might be in place or even no government at all (!).
    Over throwing the government is not at all on the minds of most anyone including women hoping to fight off a rapist, stalker, or attacker via their firearm nor was it on the mind of the men in Rwanda, Germany, or Poland and other countries around the world through time immemorial where due to government and 'laws' and oppressors human beings have been disarmed be it by forceful proclamation of law or the whim of overlords. Those men without arms and the right muchless means to defend themselves only to suffer and watch their families suffer, greatly, they had no thoughts what so ever in those immediate moments of over throwing government.
    Their only thought was simple, plain, and clear. A desire to defend themselves and protect their own and what is theirs from those predators who wish at their whim to take everything away from including their limbs if not life too.

    Mr. Baugh like many others including so called 'liberal' persons who believe they "understand" is in fact blind, deaf, and dumb.
    So proven by his stated assessment.

    I wonder if Mr. Baugh had opportunity, scatch that...were forced, to swap places with this man and his daughter/sister/wife/mother with this woman what would he have to say then about ones "rationale" and desire for having access to and ability to possess firearms?


    "A Hutu man who did not support the genocide had been imprisoned in the concentration camp, starved and attacked with machetes. He managed to survive after he was freed and was placed in the care of the Red Cross."
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    Overthrow of government, that was not on the mind of these people nor many others in history past and recent at the time that they were being chastised for merely existing. That was not on the minds of women being raped and beaten and murdered in front of their families and children. Over throw of government my arse.
    The truth of how ridiculous a statement that is is plainly obvious as the nose on ones own face, and the Framers not being deaf, blind, nor dumb they knew this too.

    - Janq

    P.S. - As for his guess that tightened regulation would increase safety, he's wrong there too.
    Never mind multiple studies that have shown this. The clear undeniable evidence of how wrong that idea and he is can be found simply by looking at the real world results as they occurred toward England before and after their own crack down on not just firearms but everything that goes boom or is remotely sharp and thus dangerous including even I kid you not pocket pencil sharpeners designed for school kids, kitchen knives, and imitation samurai swords. Even with all that tightly restricted and disallowed crime in England _increased_ to the point that they are now the worlds second most dangerous country in the sense of criminal victimization behind #1 Australia, where according to the UN 1 in 3 citizens is a victim of personally directed crime.
    Mr. Baugh has no clue how bad things really are and how they could be nor how they have been in times past for people around the world and in America too.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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