Philly Inquirer Poll to hit (Merged)

[franktait]

Don't know if you saw this article in the Philly Inquirer or not
- I've been corresponding with Jeremy Clark and I'm lending him
holsters for the next Students for Concealed Carry protest.

Student group pushes for right to carry concealed weapons on campus | Philadelphia Inquirer | 03/01/2008

Frank

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[falcon1]

Voted. Current results:

Do you support allowing students to carry concealed guns on campus?

Yes 1534 (73.1%)
No 565 (26.9%)

[foreveryoung001]

I voted yes, although I think it should have been worded differently. I think everyone, not just students, should be allowed to carry on campus.

[Janq]

Do you support allowing students to carry concealed guns on campus?
Yes 1586 (73.5%)
No 572 (26.5%)
Total votes = 2158

Question:
When this comes up in the media why is it always that folks think the only people on campuses are 'students' and they imagine no one but fresh out of HS 18 yr. olds with raging hormones?
Those persons make up the minority not majority of a given student body (juniors and seniors average in age at 21!) and they are also a minority in regard to population as a whole that may be on campus at any given time inclusive of staff including educators _and_ non-educator personnel who have just as much right and reason to wish to protect their person as any one else in life and should not be effectively penalized because they happen to have been a customer of and/or are in some way employed by a school.

- Voter #1586

[G&G]

Do you support allowing students to carry concealed guns on campus?
Yes 1630 (73.1%)
No 599 (26.9%)

[Maineman]

There is a poll there about students being allowed CCW on campus WE ARE LOSING, VOTE NOW!!!

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/home_...n_campus_.html

[DPro.40]

Current tally

Yes
1723 (73.0%)
No
638 (27.0%)

[tns0038]

BTW.. the link did not work but by doing a search of "student gun" I was able to find it.

as of right now the vote is

Do you support allowing students to carry concealed guns on campus?
Yes
1728 (73.0%)
No
640 (27.0%)
Total votes = 2368

[retsupt99]

Link just says, "Page not found..."

Have another link?

[retsupt99]

Voted...

Still,
73%
27%

Stay armed...stay in school...stay safe!

[grady]

Try this link: Student group pushes for right to carry concealed weapons on campus | Philadelphia Inquirer | 03/01/2008

Do you support allowing students to carry concealed guns on campus?

Yes 73.1% 1758
No 26.9% 648

[tdpalmer]

Voted

Yes 1757 (73.1%)

No 646 (26.9%)

TDPalmer

[lacrosse50]

voted.

73% yes
26% no

[C Paul Lincoln]

Voted yes.

The comments show that the paper is anti-gun. There are many commenters who claim thier posts were censored by the mods there. The poll tells the real story.

[Jason Rogers]

I found Chief Healy's coments the most distastfull. My E-mail to shealyATprinceton.edu.

Chief Healy,

In a Philadelphia Inquirer article: Student Group
Pushes for Right to Carry Concealed Weapons on Campus
from March 1st, 2008 you are quoted as saying "I would
dispute anyone who says there's evidence to suggest
that having students carrying guns on campus make our
campuses safer,".

Before concealed handgun laws were passed throughout
the United States, opponents claimed that such laws
would turn disputes over parking spaces and traffic
accidents into shootings. This did not prove to be the
case. The same responsible adults--age twenty-one and
above--now asking to be allowed to carry their
concealed handguns on college campuses are already
allowed to do so virtually everywhere else they
go--office buildings, shopping malls, movie theaters,
grocery stores, banks, etc.

They clearly do not let their emotions get the better
of them in other environments; therefore, no less
should be expected of them on college campuses. In
most states CHL/CCW holders have been educated and
tested on both the basic rules of gun safety and the
laws pertaining to carrying a concealed handgun,
threatening to use deadly force, and using deadly
force. They have also passed proficiency (shooting)
test at a firing range.

Since the fall semester of 2006, state law in Utah has
allowed licensed individuals to carry concealed
handguns on the campuses of all public colleges. Also,
concealed carry has been allowed for several years at
both Colorado State University (Fort Collins, CO) and
Blue Ridge Community College (Weyers Cave, VA). This
has yet to result in a single act of violence at any
of these schools. Numerous studies, including studies
by University of Maryland senior research scientist
John Lott, University of Georgia professor David
Mustard, engineering statistician William Sturdevant,
and various state agencies, show that concealed
handgun license holders are five times less likely
than non-license holders to be arrested for violent
crimes.

College students can already legally purchase
firearms, and every state that provides for legalized
concealed carry has statutes prohibiting license
holders from carrying while under the influence.
Legalizing concealed carry on college campuses would
neither put guns into the hands of more college
students nor make it legal for a person to carry a
firearm while under the influence.

What is worse than allowing an execution-style
massacre to continue uncontested?

How can any reasonable action with the potential to
stop or slow a deranged killer intent on slaughtering
victim after victim be considered 'worse' than
allowing that killer to continue undeterred?

Citizens with concealed handgun licenses are not
vigilantes. They carry their concealed handguns as a
means of getting themselves out of harm's way, not as
an excuse to go chasing after bad guys. Whereas police
shooting statistics involve scenarios such as pursuits
down dark alleys and armed standoffs with assailants
barricaded inside buildings, most civilian shootings
happen at pointblank range. In the Luby's Cafeteria
massacre, the Columbine High School massacre, and the
Virginia Tech massacre, the assailants moved slowly
and methodically, shooting their victims from
pointblank range. A person doesn't have to be a
deadeye shot to defend himself or herself against an
assailant standing only a few feet away. It is highly
unlikely that an exchange of gunfire between an armed
citizen and a deranged killer would lead to more lives
lost than would simply allowing an onslaught of
execution-style murders to continue unchecked.
Contrary to what the movies might have us believe,
most real-world shootouts last less than ten seconds.
Even the real Gunfight at the O.K. Corral, a shootout
involving nine armed participants, lasted only about
thirty seconds and ended with only three of the
participants being killed. It is unlikely that an
exchange of gunfire between an armed assailant and an
armed citizen would last more than a couple of seconds
before one or both parties were disabled. And if the
assailant were disabled, he would be unable to do any
more harm.

Most significantly for your state of New Jersey you
all suffer under some of the most draconian gun
restrictions ever inflicted on U.S. citizens. I would
dispute anyone who says there's evidence to suggest
that having had these restictions in place in N.J. has
done one thing to reduce crime. To the contrary N.J.'s
resrtictions cause crime. To quote Thomas Jefferson:

"False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a
thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling
inconvenience; that would take fire from men because
it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that
has no remedy for evils except destruction. The laws
that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a
nature. They disarm only those who are neither
inclined nor determined to commit crime."

Even the CDC cannot bolster your position.

First Reports Evaluating the Effectiveness of
Strategies for Preventing Violence: Firearms Laws
Findings from the Task Force on Community Preventive
Services

Summary

During 2000--2002, the Task Force on Community
Preventive Services (the Task Force), an independent
nonfederal task force, conducted a systematic review
of scientific evidence regarding the effectiveness of
firearms laws in preventing violence, including
violent crimes, suicide, and unintentional injury. The
following laws were evaluated: bans on specified
firearms or ammunition, restrictions on firearm
acquisition, waiting periods for firearm acquisition,
firearm registration and licensing of firearm owners,
"shall issue" concealed weapon carry laws, child
access prevention laws, zero tolerance laws for
firearms in schools, and combinations of firearms
laws. The Task Force found insufficient evidence to
determine the effectiveness of any of the firearms
laws or combinations of laws reviewed on violent
outcomes. This report briefly describes how the
reviews were conducted, summarizes the Task Force
findings, and provides information regarding needs for
future research.
First Reports Evaluating the Effectiveness of Strategies for Preventing Violence: Firearms Laws

I leave you with a few more quotes.

Respectfully, Jason M. Rogers

"I lobbied against the law in 1993 and 1995 because I
thought it would lead to wholesale armed conflict.
That hasn't happened. All the horror stories I thought
would come to pass didn't happen. No bogeyman. I think
it's worked out well, and that says good things about
the citizens who have permits. I'm a convert." --
Glenn White, president of the Dallas Police
Association, Dallas Morning News, 12/23/97

"I ... [felt] that such legislation present[ed] a
clear and present danger to law-abiding citizens by
placing more handguns on our streets. Boy was I wrong.
Our experience in Harris County, and indeed statewide,
has proven my fears absolutely groundless." -- Harris
County [Texas] District Attorney John Holmes, Dallas
Morning News, 12/23/97

"Some of the public safety concerns which we imagined
or anticipated a couple of years ago, to our pleasant
surprise, have been unfounded or mitigated." --
Fairfax County, VA, Police Major Bill Brown,
Alexandria Journal, 7/9/97

"I was wrong. But I'm glad to say I was wrong." --
Arlington County, VA, Police Detective Paul Larson,
Alexandria Journal, 7/9/97

"The concerns I had - with more guns on the street,
folks may be more apt to square off against one
another with weapons - we haven't experienced that."
-- Charlotte-Mecklenburg, NC, Police Chief Dennis
Nowicki, The News and Observer, 11/24/97

"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it
would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun."
-Dalai Lama