Katrina-like confiscations in Greensburg, KS

This is a discussion on Katrina-like confiscations in Greensburg, KS within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; This is a post copied from the Kansas Concealed Carry forum, KSCCW.com . Patricia Stoneking is active in legislative matters. On Thursday, 3-6-08, she attended ...

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Thread: Katrina-like confiscations in Greensburg, KS

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    Member Array takurpic's Avatar
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    Katrina-like confiscations in Greensburg, KS

    This is a post copied from the Kansas Concealed Carry forum, KSCCW.com. Patricia Stoneking is active in legislative matters. On Thursday, 3-6-08, she attended a hearing in Topeka on the Kansas Emergency Powers Act, House Bill 2811. This legislation will prevent gun confiscations like we saw in New Orleans, LA and Greensburg, KS.

    Here is a portion her post, shared with her permission:


    As far as Greensburg, here is the shocking truth. I will simply state the facts. First of all, understand that it is not lawful to carry out a mandatory evacuation unless martial law has been declared. Martial law was NOT declared and folks in the town were told they had to leave and some were forced to leave at gun point because they didn't want to leave. The tornado happened at 9:46pm and they were forced to leave within a couple hours of it, being given no time to collect themselves or assess the damages or even try to pick up anything such as guns and valuables to take with them. Ed Klummp, Police Chiefs Association, testified against the bill and said the evacuations were so they could search for bodies and shut off gas and power. This town was locked down tight for 4 days and no one was allowed in or out. The only people in that town those 4 days were Sheriffs Officers, Kansas Highway Patrol Officers, FEMA, National Guard, Police Officers from surrounding areas and some volunteers from Ft. Riley. They claim no one else was there or could have gotten in and out. Many guns and other valuables such as jewelry have gone permanently missing and have never been recovered. There were some houses that were not destroyed and were in tact at one end of town. Those folks did not want to leave but were forced to leave. When they returned they found their front doors kicked in and all of their guns and jewelry missing. Guns and ammo that were collected were taken to a trailer (18 wheeler size) and an ATF agent manned the trailer. When people first came to collect their guns they had to fill out a 4473 and get a nics approval before they could claim their guns. No one had paperwork, receipts, or lists of serial numbers because it had all blown away. Later into the process they quit demanding these items. Apparantly many guns were claimed by not the rightful owner. One man had 75 guns that did not belong to him, which he was busted for trying to sell. In one of the houses they busted into they found 5 full auto guns, C-4 explosive, grenades and a rocket launcher. This gentleman claimed to be ex military and kept them from that time. He was not charged as it was determined to be an illegal search and seizure. The people in Greensburg are a close tight knit community, everyone knows everyone kind of place. They were very resentful of government coming in and telling them what they had to do. They would have preferred to stay and help each other locate valuables and guns and not leave their property. In one case, in the collection trailer, a gun box was claimed by one man who had a very nice gun in it and when he opened the undamaged and closed box, not a mark on the box, he found an old rusted gun that was not his. Supposedly, 2 police officers from Wichita who were part of the task force during the 4 day evacuation were fired because they were found to have stolen guns and trying to sell them. The comment made to us was that none of the really nice guns were found. The main source of this information was a gentleman from Greensburg who is an FFL and has a gun shop outside of town and he is also a gunsmith. He sold a good portion of those guns to people in Greensburg and also has been working to repair many of their guns in the aftermath. When he went to claim his guns, from his home, not his shop as the shop was in tact and they did not break in the shop and take anything, he said the ATF agent basically told him to take anything he wanted. There was no collection list and guns were NOT cataloged for location of discovery or anything like that.

    Now just a quicky of what my opinion is. The folks in that town had their constitutional rights violated from the get go. I am appalled at what happened there and can tell you I would never leave my property under those circumstances. I guess those over zealous government agents would have to shoot me which was a close case almost scenario in Greensburg but the citizens gave in. I would not give in. The people in that town who were already traumatized by the tornado were further traumatized by government officials. If there were no civilians and no looters then where are all the missing guns. Funny how all the missing guns are the nicest, most expensive guns. Also funny how there was no media coverage of any of this and it was kept very hush, hush but then we all know the media and what cxxp they espouse to.

    As this bill moves through the process the entire population of KS needs to raise it's voice in the loudest manner to see to it the bill gets passed. Once it passes out of the House committee it will go to the Senate committee. People need to educate themselves on what their rights are in times of disaster. The folks in Greensburg thought they didn't have a choice about leaving because that's what they were told and that was a lie.

    PEOPLE NEED TO GET INVOLVED!!! Yes, I just shouted that. I was shocked by the fact that only 3 people turned out to attend the hearing to support our side, other than those of us who testified. The NRA sent an alert out to its members in KS, I sent an alert out to my 2000 member database urging them to come in support and 3 people show up. There is power in numbers. When a hearing room is full of proponents, legislators take notice. Do I sound pissed? If you think I do then you'd be right. I had to take the time to write my testimony and then spend a day in Topeka. I had to work till 2:30am last night and will again tonight to catch up because I devoted my time to this issue. People give all kinds of excuses for not being actively involved and not coming to hearings to support the effort. It's a matter of setting priorities and my first priority is to the protection of my constitutional rights. I guess I just don't understand how that could not be first priority to everyone else. Mostly, I'm just mad at the system for violating our rights. I may not have been a victim in Greensburg but any disaster could happen where I live anytime without warning and now I sure know what to expect. Everyone in this entire country needs to get their heads out of the freaking sand!

    I was terribly angered by what I found out yesterday and feel very bad for the people of Greensburg. It literally made me sick to hear all this and wish I had been told when it was happening. There had been a few rumors but the rumors were vague with no actual evidence or proof and were not first hand detailed accounts. The people of Greensburg will never be the same. Emergency Powers Legislation has been passed in 22 other states and is actively going through the process of being enacted in several other states. The NRA has made it a priority to see to it that it gets passed in all 50 states. We need to support the NRA in this effort.

    If this doesn't give us all a wake up call, I don't know what will.

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    VIP Member Array deadeye72's Avatar
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    That just goes to show it can happen anywhere. Even if they pass laws to prevent this from happening again, what is to keep it from happening? What they did was illegal to begin with, but that did not keep them from doing it.
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    You see! It could happen to any of us! And without warning!
    Does any of these LEOs and all even read and or understand the constitution?
    What if it were their homes?
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    I applaud this woman for what she is doing, however, when these types of SHTF senarios happen those in charge are going to do whatever they want to do. They're all amped up with the adrenaline flowing and they just aren't going to listen to Joe citizen trying to explain what their constitutional rights are. That will get you cuffed more than likey. That's just reality IMHO and there's nothing you can do about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadeye72 View Post
    That just goes to show it can happen anywhere. Even if they pass laws to prevent this from happening again, what is to keep it from happening? What they did was illegal to begin with, but that did not keep them from doing it.
    agreed
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    Why does this keep happening? I can't figure out why the cops continue to confiscate legally owned firearms by law abiding citizens.Where are the law suits?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stetson View Post
    Why does this keep happening? I can't figure out why the cops continue to confiscate legally owned firearms by law abiding citizens.Where are the law suits?
    Part of the problem is knowing who to name in the suit.

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    VIP Member Array deadeye72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stetson View Post
    Why does this keep happening? I can't figure out why the cops continue to confiscate legally owned firearms by law abiding citizens.Where are the law suits?
    Problem is in this case as in the katrina confiscation, guns were not really confiscated, they were stolen. Most people do not get their guns back because there is no way to identify who owns what.
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    Has the law that is suppose to stop this been passed in MS? If not, Who do I need to E-mail To explain how I feel!!

    Kansas was not one of the 22 states that passed this law was it?
    I don't know what i'm saying, without any other laws this is so illegal!!
    Were going to have a tornado, and i'm going to get gunned down in my own home!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by walvord View Post
    I applaud this woman for what she is doing, however, when these types of SHTF senarios happen those in charge are going to do whatever they want to do. They're all amped up with the adrenaline flowing and they just aren't going to listen to Joe citizen trying to explain what their constitutional rights are. That will get you cuffed more than likey. That's just reality IMHO and there's nothing you can do about it.
    I'll never forget the NRA Katrina video where LEO manhandled that old woman for no good reason. I'm not a LEO, so I don't know this offhand, but are LEO's sworn to uphold the US Constitution? Probably not, but they should be.
    Yes, the world has gotten smaller, but it will always be too big to be ruled by unelected bureaucrats.

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    I am not advocating or encouraging illegal activity, this is a legitimate question.

    If what the authorities did in this situation was illegal, would it have been legal to resist with deadly force?

    If so than maybe citizens in the future should have plans on banding together and offer organized resistance. This would be a true militia.
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    VIP Member Array cdwolf's Avatar
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    Unless they have a warrent There not getting in my home!!!
    What they did was illegal in so many ways, being forced to leave your home at gunpoint. That badge they wear makes them think .....nevermind, no offence to any of our many leo's, my father was one. The problem is the chain of command and the mindless crooks that carry out their orders regardless!!! Just look at who stole the guns!! OMG!!
    GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN

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    I gess what it will take is a homeowner legally defending his property from illegal acts by police officers and several officers getting their asses shot off and after a lengthy tial a jury of his peers saying not guilty and the public demanding the survivors be brought to trial for everything from criminal trespass to attempted murder.Some LEO seem to forget that badge doesn't give them the power to break the law as they see fit

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    VIP Member Array cdwolf's Avatar
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    There is power in numbers, they will probably get in(as many has stated). The question is how many of us don't make it. No big deal if it's only one house, But if it started costing them officers , and dead citizens,and more then one person standing up for there RIGHTS. Then they would stop! How many standoff's a day are they willing to do? One at a time ? How many leo will ignore the law!! Puppets! And then kick there doors in to steal there guns...............
    GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN

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    When did this happen?
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