Boy Punished for T-Shirt With Gun Image (Merged)

This is a discussion on Boy Punished for T-Shirt With Gun Image (Merged) within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; As long as the decision, on what can be on a shirt and what can't be on a shirt, is arbitrary, then the position that ...

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 58

Thread: Boy Punished for T-Shirt With Gun Image (Merged)

  1. #31
    Member Array foreveryoung001's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    473
    As long as the decision, on what can be on a shirt and what can't be on a shirt, is arbitrary, then the position that the student and his parents have taken is the correct one. Imagine showing up in school and one teacher telling you to turn your shirt inside-out because he doesn't want to see the Nike Loge that is printed on your chest, then at the next class you're told to turn it right-side-out because that teacher doesn't like the fact that the tag says "wash in cold water only". It is nonsense!

    Imagine getting a ticket for speeding, and when you ask the LEO what the speed limit is, he says, "I have no idea, but I know you were going over it."
    That's what just happened to this kid.

    Whether are schools are "glorified" daycare centers, need more authority to discipline, or are teaching are kids what we want them to learn, has nothing to do with what happened to this kid.

    If you're child's school has issues, then get involved. Join the school board, become active in the PTO, go to the board meetings, do something. But don't make the mistake of combining all of the these important issues with what this boy did.

    I have two teenagers, and they both screw up at school from time to time, and they usually receive a home punishment over whatever the school does. There are times though, where I have to go in and defend my kids when I feel that what they do is not wrong. The boy stood on the principles that his parents taught him. Proof of that, to me, is that his parents are defending him. Good for him and good for his parents.

    However this winds up, if I keep preaching that education begins at home, and I am not willing to defend my child when he stands up for the principles that I have taught them, then I should be ashamed of myself.
    When the messenger arrives and says 'Don't shoot the messenger,' it's a good idea to be prepared to shoot the messenger, just in case.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #32
    Member Array mustang00066's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Bountiful, Utah
    Posts
    107
    In an 8th grade class i made a t shirt that said Guns don't Kill People, I kill people! (from happy gilmore) and there was a picture of an AK on it. I wore it til it literally shredded and couldn't be worn anymore! in retrospect it probably wasn't the smartest most PC move ever, but it was sure to get a laugh! None of my teachers had any problems with it, or at least never said anything if they did.
    "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
    -Alexander Hamilton

  4. #33
    Senior Member Array Freedom Doc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    872
    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    I work in a school with the whole 'flock'...each and every day....
    I wear a new anti- after shave...they stay away!
    What kind of after shave would that be -- Hoppe's #9?
    Anti-gunners seem to believe that if we just pass enough laws, we can have utopia. Unfortunately, utopia is NOT one of our choices.

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    4,230
    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom Doc View Post
    What kind of after shave would that be -- Hoppe's #9?
    Wait...you mean Break-Free isn't enough? ...no wonder the girls stay away. Guess I should switch to hoppe's...
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  6. #35
    Senior Member Array joleary223's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    1,057
    I should start selling holes for to bury their heads in, I might get rich.
    CRIME..... LAW DEFINES, POLICE ENFORCE, CITIZENS PREVENT!

    FOUR BOXES KEEP US FREE: [1] SOAP [2] BALLOT [3] JURY [4] AMMO!

  7. #36
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,602
    "Originally Posted by Freedom Doc View Post
    What kind of after shave would that be -- Hoppe's #9?"

    Love the fragrance of Hoppes. The manufacturer hasn't a clue what a huge market they'd have if they turned it into men's cologne/after shave. Or, they could put that into men's hair spray. That'd work too.

    At least we wouldn't have to walk around smelling like perfumed ....w...ps.

  8. #37
    Member Array alfack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Marysville, Washington
    Posts
    320
    Quote Originally Posted by mustang00066 View Post
    In an 8th grade class i made a t shirt that said Guns don't Kill People, I kill people! (from happy gilmore) .
    Hah, I loved that shirt that "Jaws" was wearing.

  9. #38
    Member Array i12flytoday's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Charlotte NC
    Posts
    54
    Quote Originally Posted by 500Mag View Post
    How does a t-shirt create an "unsafe" environment? They need to take these things in context. I could see a shirt with guns, drugs, and money on it being disruptive, but this is more a military shirt. What if the kid wore a shirt that said "ban all guns" with a picture of a gun w/ the ban symbol? Would the school district even know what to do with that?

    And what "reality" is this French guy living in?

    I hope the parents go ape on the school district.
    Actually, that's just the point. The restriction of the speech is solely based on taste. Saying that a T-Shirt with money, guns, and drugs on it is any better or worse then the one the student was wearing has no impact on whether or not it is protected under the 1st. This idea that speech and expression can create an unsafe learning environment is one of the many valid explanations for why our school system in this country SUCKS compared to most other civilized countries. Heck, even some that we would call less-than-civilized show a better learning environment and better scores than most schools in the US. The school district administrators spend SO much time trying to make sure that nobody has hurt feelings and trying to put all students into the same mold of what they think is acceptable.

    I strongly believe that there will be another revolution in this country within the next 50 years. Whether it's violent or not (probably not) is undetermined, but more and more people in this country are getting tired of listening to what the politicians tell us is a correct society, only to end up with more crime, less freedoms, and a lighter wallet to pay for the failed BS program to begin with. All this while they live in their protective environments with many guards assigned to ensure their safety. In the mean time, the only thing that has been absolutely proven to reduce violent crime against citizens is to make the criminals the ones that are afraid. I like to think that every time a BG is blasted while trying to rob / rape / kill someone another BG thinks twice about picking up that weapon and trying to hurt an honest citizen.

    Sorry for the rant... Some things just get to me!

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,894
    I was hoping this thread had died, but here it goes again.

    Students do not have rights, period. When a student is at a public school, he is thrown into a classroom with 30+ other students. If one of those students wants to draw attention to himself by wearing a controversial shirt, than I am not in favor of supporting said student.

    He wore it to get attention. His parents let him. The school offered a way to easily remedy the situation(turn inside out). He refused. He was causing a distraction. (I'll admit that maybe the school response caused the distraction, but either way, there was a distraction). He stood up for what he believed. (I did, too, and took my suspension. Refer to post #14.)

    I'm not trying to say that a picture of a gun on a shirt is going to cause more violence, but what I am saying is that unnecessary distractions hamper our children and our teachers to accomplish what they need to in an already limited amount of time.

    If 5 minutes of a 50 minute class are wasted by other kids snickering/arguing/supporting/dismissing a T-shirt, than we are wasting 1/10 of the time our kids could be being educated.

    Public school is not the place to present 'ideology's', or to advance political agendas.

    Supposedly, it is for our youth to learn.
    To learn reasoning skills, to learn cognitive skills, to learn to read/write/express themselves.

    Go to school, learn, keep your mouth shut, question everything you hear, think about everything you learn, move forward.

    Are the teacher's always right? Of course not. But if a teacher views it as distracting, it's not affecting 1 person. It's affecting an entire classroom.

    This Me, Me, Me attitude that parent's are instilling into their kids is sickening. Grow up!

    Sometimes, it is necessary, to fit in. Case in point. Do I carry a gun? Absolutely. Do I need to show it off to everybody? Absolutely not. These kids who think they are entitled to something are the beginning of the downfall of the greatest nation on God's Green Earth.

    They aren't entitled to anything. Yes, they can wear anything they want. But they have to suffer the consequences. If you want to show up to an interview wearing a pot leaf, I'm all for it. But don't expect me to give you a job. If you want to show up to school wearing something that is going to cause a distraction, then fine, I'm all for it. But don't expect my child to suffer because you choose to deprive my child of an organized/civil class where learning can be accomplished without distraction.

    And definitely don't expect my child to suffer because of reduced funding because some idiot wants to file a lawsuit.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

    http://miscmusings.townhall.com/

    Who is John Galt?

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    15,177
    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    I work in a school with the whole 'flock'...each and every day....
    I wear a new anti- after shave...they stay away!
    They make an aftershave smells like burnt gunpowder?
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  12. #41
    Member Array Southtexas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    201
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    I was hoping this thread had died, but here it goes again.

    Students do not have rights, period. When a student is at a public school, he is thrown into a classroom with 30+ other students. If one of those students wants to draw attention to himself by wearing a controversial shirt, than I am not in favor of supporting said student.

    He wore it to get attention. His parents let him. The school offered a way to easily remedy the situation(turn inside out). He refused. He was causing a distraction. (I'll admit that maybe the school response caused the distraction, but either way, there was a distraction). He stood up for what he believed. (I did, too, and took my suspension. Refer to post #14.)

    I'm not trying to say that a picture of a gun on a shirt is going to cause more violence, but what I am saying is that unnecessary distractions hamper our children and our teachers to accomplish what they need to in an already limited amount of time.

    If 5 minutes of a 50 minute class are wasted by other kids snickering/arguing/supporting/dismissing a T-shirt, than we are wasting 1/10 of the time our kids could be being educated.

    Public school is not the place to present 'ideology's', or to advance political agendas.

    Supposedly, it is for our youth to learn.
    To learn reasoning skills, to learn cognitive skills, to learn to read/write/express themselves.

    Go to school, learn, keep your mouth shut, question everything you hear, think about everything you learn, move forward.

    Are the teacher's always right? Of course not. But if a teacher views it as distracting, it's not affecting 1 person. It's affecting an entire classroom.

    This Me, Me, Me attitude that parent's are instilling into their kids is sickening. Grow up!

    Sometimes, it is necessary, to fit in. Case in point. Do I carry a gun? Absolutely. Do I need to show it off to everybody? Absolutely not. These kids who think they are entitled to something are the beginning of the downfall of the greatest nation on God's Green Earth.

    They aren't entitled to anything. Yes, they can wear anything they want. But they have to suffer the consequences. If you want to show up to an interview wearing a pot leaf, I'm all for it. But don't expect me to give you a job. If you want to show up to school wearing something that is going to cause a distraction, then fine, I'm all for it. But don't expect my child to suffer because you choose to deprive my child of an organized/civil class where learning can be accomplished without distraction.

    And definitely don't expect my child to suffer because of reduced funding because some idiot wants to file a lawsuit.

    Your points are well written but my concern here is that either there is a dress code or there is not a dress code, Dress codes adress the above reasons you list, and are made policy for everyone to follow. By your logic it would be ok for another student there in the same class to wear a "footprint of the american chicken" shirt, aka peace sign shirt, if the teacher said it didnt cause a distraction then "no distraction took place" but for the child who has a parent or relative serving his nation in harms way this would be a distraction. my point here is that quite simply you can not allow a Teacher to have discretion AND still be true to your point. a distraction is a distraction, so its uniforms or no printed "anything"

    solid colors? what if my son/daughter feels the color "xxxx" represents "XXXXX" is that not a distraction to my son/daughter?

    So its uniforms then. No right to individual expression at all, because it may offend others, now take that a step further and what you are teaching children is that because What i say or do may offend you I cant do it. Guess what I carry a gun, it offends others, I dont care, but by that same logic listed above I should not carry a gun anymore, it disturbs the sheeple. I obey the laws, if there is a law that says my son or daughter can not bring printed shirts to class then they wont, (rules substituted here for school districts) but I will be damned if I will have a school board justify suspending my son/daughter because they dont agree with the message or statement that my child wears when they dont have a uniform policy against any statements. You dont like my message ok, just make sure I dont have to listen to anyone elses message either.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    Sometimes, it is necessary, to fit in. Case in point. Do I carry a gun? Absolutely. Do I need to show it off to everybody? Absolutely not. .
    So even though you carry a gun, which may make others feel uncomfortable you feel you have the right to do this? OMG shame on you, you mean your rights are more important than the majority of others rights? shame on you. IF to fit in you were told you could not carry your gun would you still want to fit in? or is there a separation that only you can distinguish here?

    IF you can not make a statement, any statement that is one thing, but to be told "your statement is distracting" without merit is a completely different story.

    you want to justify this action on the school boards behalf because the teachers hands are tied by so many other things, but the truth is that shirt did not distract anyone other than the teacher who did not like it. Would the same student now be suspended from school for wearing a shirt that says "love your neighbor, violence is never the answer"?

    A shirt that says "your god is a joke" vs. "God loves you"
    Last edited by Southtexas; March 27th, 2008 at 06:33 AM. Reason: case sensitive quotation added.

  13. #42
    Member Array landelmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    OK
    Posts
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by Southtexas View Post
    Your points are well written but my concern here is that either there is a dress code or there is not a dress code, Dress codes adress the above reasons you list, and are made policy for everyone to follow. By your logic it would be ok for another student there in the same class to wear a "footprint of the american chicken" shirt, aka peace sign shirt, if the teacher said it didnt cause a distraction then "no distraction took place" but for the child who has a parent or relative serving his nation in harms way this would be a distraction. my point here is that quite simply you can not allow a Teacher to have discretion AND still be true to your point. a distraction is a distraction, so its uniforms or no printed "anything"

    solid colors? what if my son/daughter feels the color "xxxx" represents "XXXXX" is that not a distraction to my son/daughter?

    So its uniforms then. No right to individual expression at all, because it may offend others, now take that a step further and what you are teaching children is that because What i say or do may offend you I cant do it. Guess what I carry a gun, it offends others, I dont care, but by that same logic listed above I should not carry a gun anymore, it disturbs the sheeple. I obey the laws, if there is a law that says my son or daughter can not bring printed shirts to class then they wont, (rules substituted here for school districts) but I will be damned if I will have a school board justify suspending my son/daughter because they dont agree with the message or statement that my child wears when they dont have a uniform policy against any statements. You dont like my message ok, just make sure I dont have to listen to anyone elses message either.




    So even though you carry a gun, which may make others feel uncomfortable you feel you have the right to do this? OMG shame on you, you mean your rights are more important than the majority of others rights? shame on you. IF to fit in you were told you could not carry your gun would you still want to fit in? or is there a separation that only you can distinguish here?

    IF you can not make a statement, any statement that is one thing, but to be told "your statement is distracting" without merit is a completely different story.

    you want to justify this action on the school boards behalf because the teachers hands are tied by so many other things, but the truth is that shirt did not distract anyone other than the teacher who did not like it. Would the same student now be suspended from school for wearing a shirt that says "love your neighbor, violence is never the answer"?

    A shirt that says "your god is a joke" vs. "God loves you"
    +1

  14. #43
    Member Array jcheinaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Lancaster, PA
    Posts
    136
    Quote Originally Posted by Southtexas View Post
    Your points are well written but my concern here is that either there is a dress code or there is not a dress code, Dress codes adress the above reasons you list, and are made policy for everyone to follow. By your logic it would be ok for another student there in the same class to wear a "footprint of the american chicken" shirt, aka peace sign shirt, if the teacher said it didnt cause a distraction then "no distraction took place" but for the child who has a parent or relative serving his nation in harms way this would be a distraction. my point here is that quite simply you can not allow a Teacher to have discretion AND still be true to your point. a distraction is a distraction, so its uniforms or no printed "anything"

    solid colors? what if my son/daughter feels the color "xxxx" represents "XXXXX" is that not a distraction to my son/daughter?

    So its uniforms then. No right to individual expression at all, because it may offend others, now take that a step further and what you are teaching children is that because What i say or do may offend you I cant do it. Guess what I carry a gun, it offends others, I dont care, but by that same logic listed above I should not carry a gun anymore, it disturbs the sheeple. I obey the laws, if there is a law that says my son or daughter can not bring printed shirts to class then they wont, (rules substituted here for school districts) but I will be damned if I will have a school board justify suspending my son/daughter because they dont agree with the message or statement that my child wears when they dont have a uniform policy against any statements. You dont like my message ok, just make sure I dont have to listen to anyone elses message either.




    So even though you carry a gun, which may make others feel uncomfortable you feel you have the right to do this? OMG shame on you, you mean your rights are more important than the majority of others rights? shame on you. IF to fit in you were told you could not carry your gun would you still want to fit in? or is there a separation that only you can distinguish here?

    IF you can not make a statement, any statement that is one thing, but to be told "your statement is distracting" without merit is a completely different story.

    you want to justify this action on the school boards behalf because the teachers hands are tied by so many other things, but the truth is that shirt did not distract anyone other than the teacher who did not like it. Would the same student now be suspended from school for wearing a shirt that says "love your neighbor, violence is never the answer"?

    A shirt that says "your god is a joke" vs. "God loves you"
    +10

    Can you say hypocrite? No student has rights period? What society are we living in?

  15. #44
    Member Array jcheinaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Lancaster, PA
    Posts
    136
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    But don't expect my child to suffer because you choose to deprive my child of an organized/civil class where learning can be accomplished without distraction.

    And definitely don't expect my child to suffer because of reduced funding because some idiot wants to file a lawsuit.
    Then maybe you should consider home schooling or maybe paid private schooling. You can make any rules that you want for your kid. In "Public" school you have the right of all freedoms bestowed upon us in the bill of rights. Saying another person does not have a right over another is asinine. When my kid goes to school she or he will express themselves freely, because I live in the USA. And I'm proud of that! Period.

  16. #45
    Member Array dang.45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Wherever I may wander...
    Posts
    315
    Quote Originally Posted by jcheinaman View Post
    Then maybe you should consider home schooling or maybe paid private schooling. You can make any rules that you want for your kid. In "Public" school you have the right of all freedoms bestowed upon us in the bill of rights. Saying another person does not have a right over another is asinine. When my kid goes to school she or he will express themselves freely, because I live in the USA. And I'm proud of that! Period.
    As my previous posts in this thread make clear (#s 18 & 23), I'm pretty much against the punishment of this student. However, to say that "In 'public' school you have the right of all freedoms bestowed upon us in the bill of rights" is simply not true. The Supreme Court & various circuit courts have allowed restrictions of a student's (high school & below) "basic rights" in a number of ways that cover freedom of the press, freedom of speech, & protections against search & seizure. I'm conflicted about this myself, but that is immaterial - it is simply the truth.

    This case isn't about "rights", it is about whether or not the arbitrary actions of the 'adults' in charge should be allowed to stand. Kerbouchard is absolutely right in one sense - if something going on in this public school is causing a genuine distraction, the distraction needs to be removed. My disagreement with him is on whether or not the wearing of this tee shirt is in fact a genuine distraction or if it is an overly sensitive 'adult' merely claiming it is a distraction.

    I also disagree that a student has no rights, but they are clearly limited based on court decisions. I maintain that the kid was in the wrong for wearing the tee shirt & the parents were stupid for allowing it. The issue is, can a student be suspended for distracting one teacher, or for having stupid parents? I'd like to think not...
    "It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had a right to choose: his own." - John Galt, from Atlas Shrugged

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Improving Our Image
    By Firkin in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: March 27th, 2009, 01:59 PM
  2. The Stupid Shall Be Punished . . .
    By CT-Mike in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: January 3rd, 2008, 07:41 AM
  3. Deputies who were fired and escorted out of the building at gunpoint, are rehired. But then they are demoted and punished.
    By S.O. Interceptor in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: January 18th, 2005, 08:56 AM

Search tags for this page

b-52 its miller time shirt

,
boy punished for t shirt with gun image
,
i am the god fearin', gun totin', flag bearin', conservative the government warned you about tshirt
,
only boy punish xxxx
Click on a term to search for related topics.