FL: Take Your Gun to Work Day in House Council (MERGED)

This is a discussion on FL: Take Your Gun to Work Day in House Council (MERGED) within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Orlando Sentinel - Take Your Gun to Work Day in House Council by Aaron Deslatte posted by Aaron Deslatte Over fierce opposition from Florida's business ...

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Thread: FL: Take Your Gun to Work Day in House Council (MERGED)

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    FL: Take Your Gun to Work Day in House Council (MERGED)

    Orlando Sentinel - Take Your Gun to Work Day in House Council by Aaron Deslatte

    posted by Aaron Deslatte

    Over fierce opposition from Florida's business leaders, a House council voted Wednesday to allow employees to carry concealed weapons to work -- provided they kept them in their vehicles.

    The move was a major victory for the National Rifle Association, which has pushed unsuccessfully even stronger guns-at-work legislation the past two years. But in this election year, supporters may be satisfied with the latest measure (CS/HB 503).

    "This is closer to where we want to be, but not where we want to be," said Marion Hammer, NRA lobbyist. "This is an important people issue...the constitution begins `we the people,' not `we the Chamber of Commerce' or `we the Disney' or `we the Publix.' It's about everyday people and their lives."

    The organizations cited by Hammer were among those opposing the legislation, which they cast as a blow against their right control their private property and set rules for employees, which include banning the presence of firearms.

    "They threw them a bone," Randy Miller, a vice-president of the Florida Retail Federation, said of lawmakers on the House Environment and Natural Resources Council....
    Hmmm, sounds good so far. I don't know what else needs to happen to get this into law.
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    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
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    Well it's a start...but a small one! I want carry IN ALL 50 STATES, and in the schools (just like UTAH).
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    Senior Member Array tegemu's Avatar
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    Now to get it by the Senate and the Governor, but I don't think the Gov. would have any problem with the issue.
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    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    This is a big one boys and girls.

    I know it sounds minor, but this puts the 2A in front of an employer's right to control their own workplace. That's significant in my book.


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    Member Array CharlieMike's Avatar
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    Florida House panel: Let workers keep guns in cars

    Not quite law yet but this is encouraging!

    From the South Florida Sun Sentinel:

    Florida House panel: Let workers keep guns in cars -- South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

    South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com
    Florida House panel: Let workers keep guns in cars

    By John Kennedy

    Orlando Sentinel

    March 13, 2008

    TALLAHASSEE

    A Republican-controlled House council struggled with a pair of competing GOP principles Wednesday: the right to bear arms and the rights of private landowners to control their property.

    In the end, the guns won.

    Over fierce opposition from major Florida employers, a House council voted 11-6 Wednesday to allow employees to carry concealed weapons to work provided they kept them in their vehicles.

    The move was a major victory for the National Rifle Association, which has pushed unsuccessfully the past two years for even stronger guns-at-work legislation.

    Last year's effort came before the same House Environment and Natural Resources Council just days after a Virginia Tech student shot and killed 32 people and then himself. It did not pass.

    But in this election year, supporters came up with a compromise, limiting the gun-carrying provision to the more than 500,000 Floridians with concealed-weapons permits.

    "This is closer to where we want to be, but not where we want to be," said Marion Hammer, the NRA lobbyist. "The Constitution begins, 'We the people,' not 'We the Chamber of Commerce' or 'We the Disney' or 'We the Publix.' It's about everyday people and their lives."

    The organizations cited by Hammer were among those opposing the legislation, which they said violated their rights to control what comes onto their property. Most large employers currently ban firearms.

    "Who do you want to decide what you can or can't do on your property? Government or the employer?" said David Daniel, lobbyist for the Florida Chamber of Commerce. He ridiculed the measure (CS/HB 503) as "a big government solution looking for a problem."

    But its sponsor, Rep. Greg Evers, R-Baker, said that employers provide few safeguards against random workplace violence, so workers should be allowed to have weapons nearby for their own protection. Florida's AFL-CIO was among the groups supporting the bill.

    A similar bill (SB1130) has been introduced in the Senate. The House version faces at least one more committee stop before going to the full House, although further action has not yet been scheduled.

    Republican lawmakers, apparently worn down by two years of battle over the issue, seemed eager to approve the scaled-back bill.

    Business groups said Reps. Ray Sansom, R-Destin, and Dean Cannon, R- Winter Park, in line to be House speakers over the next four years, were intent on putting the issue behind them and signaled support for the concealed-weapons compromise.

    "They threw [the NRA] a bone in an election year," said Randy Miller, of the Florida Retail Federation.

    The Orlando Sentinel is a Tribune Co. newspaper.


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    Distinguished Member Array Reborn's Avatar
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    Hope this catches on in Texas.......
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    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    Texas will more than likely be next on this type of legislation...
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

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    Sorry for the double post. I swear I looked for a similar topic and couldn't find one.

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    Last year's attempt at this failed. The difference now is the provision that it is OK to keep your gun locked in your car if you have a CWP. I think this will cause a lot more people to get their permit. A good side benefit of this law.

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    Senior Member Array Cthulhu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevePVB View Post
    Last year's attempt at this failed. The difference now is the provision that it is OK to keep your gun locked in your car if you have a CWP. I think this will cause a lot more people to get their permit. A good side benefit of this law.
    Technically, it's legal to keep your gun in your car, locked or not, as long as it's concealed. I guess this just makes it a right protected by FL law, right?

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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    The difference, I believe, is that with this law, employers cannot force you to NOT have a gun in your car while on their property.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

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    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miklcolt45 View Post
    The difference, I believe, is that with this law, employers cannot force you to NOT have a gun in your car while on their property.
    Correct.

    What I haven't seen addressed yet is how this will impact school districts who currently choose to prohibit even lawful CCW holders the ability to leave a weapon in their car while on property. That could get interesting in a hurry.......

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    Member Array dang.45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
    This is a big one boys and girls.

    I know it sounds minor, but this puts the 2A in front of an employer's right to control their own workplace. That's significant in my book.

    While I agree with the sentiment that "this is a big one", I disagree with your interpretation of the issue.

    The conflict being addressed is NOT a "2nd Amendment vs. property rights" issue. It is purely a property rights problem. Can one private property owner (the employer) control what another private property owner (the employee) keeps &/or stores in his own private property (the employee's car). The reason this is confusing for the non-thinking out there is that the employee's car is a movable bit of private property, and it is possible for that car to drive onto the employer's private property.

    No one's private property rights can trump another's. The only legitimate action an employer can take to prevent any item (guns or otherwise) from being "on his property" is to bar employees from driving their cars onto the employer's property in the first place. Employers don't want to do that because they rightly believe that this would not be looked favorably upon by the general public, or likely by the law either. So instead, they want to try to get you to believe that either their property rights trump yours (which is BS, and they know it), or that your car isn't actually private property (which is also BS).

    Now, as soon as the employee steps out of the car with the gun, he is no longer in his own private property, and is now under the "jurisdiction" of the employer's property. While we all know it is plain old stupid for an employee to ban a permit holder from carrying at work, it is entirely within their rights as property holders to do so. But as long as the employee keeps the gun in their car at all times while on company property, no one's property rights are being "trampled" or infringed upon.

    The reason I chose to frame it this way is (1) that is the real issue at play here, and (2) if we can take the highly charged & emotional issue of "guns in the workplace" out of play here, it will not only be easier to get favorable laws passed, it will make our position virtually unassailable.

    Yes, the logical consequence of our "winning of the argument" is that permit holders will be able to keep their property (their guns) in their property (their cars). But that isn't the logical or legal crux of the issue.

    Just tryin' to help make it easier on us all to get the results we all want...
    "It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had a right to choose: his own." - John Galt, from Atlas Shrugged

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    Senior Member Array agentmel's Avatar
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    This is NOT good news! While I personally disagree with the above mentioned companies, the government is infringing on their property rights in passing this. The owner of any property should have the ABSOLUTE right to any rules they want on their own property, provided they are not aggressing against others, just as you would want the same absolute right to determine who does and does not carry a weapon onto YOUR property. That said, if someone did have a weapon in their vehicle, these companies could ask that person to remove them, leave, or fire that person.

    The fact that you or I would or would not care who brought a weapon onto our own property is immaterial. Property owners have an absolute natural right to deal with their just property as THEY and ONLY THEY desire, provided they do not harm someone else in the process.

    I have a very simple litmus test to determine if any law is legitimate. If its a law passed by any government, it is illegitimate. If it is a law that logically follows from the nature of man (the rights to control one's own person and property), it is legitimate. Thus, this law would be illegitimate. The only other law I recognize, which falls outside of the question here, is God's law, which people are free (obviously) to accept or not.

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    Member Array inman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dang.45 View Post

    No one's private property rights can trump another's. The only legitimate action an employer can take to prevent any item (guns or otherwise) from being "on his property" is to bar employees from driving their cars onto the employer's property in the first place. Employers don't want to do that because they rightly believe that this would not be looked favorably upon by the general public, or likely by the law either. So instead, they want to try to get you to believe that either their property rights trump yours (which is BS, and they know it), or that your car isn't actually private property (which is also BS).


    The reason I chose to frame it this way is (1) that is the real issue at play here, and (2) if we can take the highly charged & emotional issue of "guns in the workplace" out of play here, it will not only be easier to get favorable laws passed, it will make our position virtually unassailable.

    Yes, the logical consequence of our "winning of the argument" is that permit holders will be able to keep their property (their guns) in their property (their cars). But that isn't the logical or legal crux of the issue.

    Just tryin' to help make it easier on us all to get the results we all want...

    Great interpretation. I agree......

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