Can Canadian troops disarm US citizens - Page 2

Can Canadian troops disarm US citizens

This is a discussion on Can Canadian troops disarm US citizens within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by packinnova I have no malice towards most of the Canadians... they don't value the constitution the same way we do, nor do ...

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  1. #16
    Senior Member Array MR D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    I have no malice towards most of the Canadians... they don't value the constitution the same way we do, nor do they know most of the laws, so they would therefor not have any compunction about being ordered to take arms during an emergency. That's the only issue (and a far fetched one) that I see with this concept.
    +1 they don't value the Constitution of the United States of America - because it is not theirs...

    The problem that I have - is who authorized the NorthCom Commander to enter into a "status of forces" agreement with a foreign government?

    This should have been handled through the US Dept. of State and then ratified by the US Senate...

    yeah - we always had status of forces agreements and mutual aid agreements when stationed overseas - but those were in conjunction with treaties...


  2. #17
    Ex Member Array DOGOFWAR01's Avatar
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    We need no for agreements like this, no foreign troops on USA soil except for letting them attend our various military courses in small numbers as not to be a threat at all.

    No UN or NATO troops are any reason, between the Armed USA Citizens, Peace Officers, and U.S. military any and all incidents can be handled.

    Write and call your Congress people.

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array Fast Cloud's Avatar
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    It's a sad time in American history when we fear our own Gestapo govt. more than terrorists. (at least I do) Small steps like these always lead up facism or communism...take your pick.
    "Any rationally thinking person is armed" ---Hinds Co. constable John Lewis

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  4. #19
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    This presents an interesting work around toward legality.

    Foreign agents in our country under the auspices of another allowed by the State dept. to work are typically designated as diplomats and afforded the same rights, respects, and allowances.
    A diplomat can literally kill you and there be no right toward response from you or your heirs. This has happened in the US and is not theory.

    FFWD a foreign armed services are on US territory under the approval of the US. State dept. protected by diplomatic immunity. The US. govt. can direct them as their agents to in theory do and make actions that otherwise are unlawful for a US originated agent to take action of. See water boarding or rendition or interrogation or NSA's 'Echelon' program or...

    This is quite clever thinking as it might could be applied/misapplied by those who might have thoughts less than purely benevolent.
    As an aside, why would the US govt./Bush administration introduce or enter into such an agreement with another country toward the supposed future consequence of a 'civil emergency' when we have at hand multiple levels of support personnel for just such exercises including; FBI, FEMA, National Guard, Coast Guard, Army/Navy/Air Force reserves, U.S. Park Police and Dept. of Forestry state guard, state militias, state police, county police & sherrifs, and town police too.
    What could the Canadians provide us that we cannot provide ourselves and exactly what civil emergency would be so great such as to overwhelm all of the above in part or whole to such a degree that it could be reasonably expected to call in/accept aid from a foreign military to set foot on American soil with approval of our govt. so as to walk into American communities to do what is assumed to be good works?

    Are we expecting a huge entire coast scrubbing tsunami?
    Or a super volcano to erupt and cover all of the US in sky blotting ash?
    Is CA finally due to fall off into the ocean?

    I hope and pray I never see the day that a foreign military walks or marches down the streets and avenues of my neighborhood never mind working under the auspices of a US. govt. approved flag.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  5. #20
    Senior Member Array bobcat35's Avatar
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    honestly i'd trust some of the conuks to be more than willing to help preserve our 2A. some of those guys almost make everyone here look anti by comparison. that said those guys that i've spoke with were all joes i can't speak knowingly of any of their officer corps.
    "Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result."
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  6. #21
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    This presents an interesting work around toward legality.

    Foreign agents in our country under the auspices of another allowed by the State dept. to work are typically designated as diplomats and afforded the same rights, respects, and allowances.
    A diplomat can literally kill you and there be no right toward response from you or your heirs. This has happened in the US and is not theory.

    FFWD a foreign armed services are on US territory under the approval of the US. State dept. protected by diplomatic immunity. The US. govt. can direct them as their agents to in theory do and make actions that otherwise are unlawful for a US originated agent to take action of. See water boarding or rendition or interrogation or NSA's 'Echelon' program or...

    This is quite clever thinking as it might could be applied/misapplied by those who might have thoughts less than purely benevolent.
    As an aside, why would the US govt./Bush administration introduce or enter into such an agreement with another country toward the supposed future consequence of a 'civil emergency' when we have at hand multiple levels of support personnel for just such exercises including; FBI, FEMA, National Guard, Coast Guard, Army/Navy/Air Force reserves, U.S. Park Police and Dept. of Forestry state guard, state militias, state police, county police & sherrifs, and town police too.
    What could the Canadians provide us that we cannot provide ourselves and exactly what civil emergency would be so great such as to overwhelm all of the above in part or whole to such a degree that it could be reasonably expected to call in/accept aid from a foreign military to set foot on American soil with approval of our govt. so as to walk into American communities to do what is assumed to be good works?

    Are we expecting a huge entire coast scrubbing tsunami?
    Or a super volcano to erupt and cover all of the US in sky blotting ash?
    Is CA finally due to fall off into the ocean?

    I hope and pray I never see the day that a foreign military walks or marches down the streets and avenues of my neighborhood never mind working under the auspices of a US. govt. approved flag.

    - Janq
    Do we really have to save them?
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  7. #22
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    Can Canadian troops disarm US citizens
    Only if you let them...
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  8. #23
    Distinguished Member Array Colin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obxned View Post
    We get many Canadian visitors to our area, and we welcome them. If they come as armed foreign invaders, they will be treated as just that.
    And it is the same for us.

    I spent many an exercise in Ft Lewis and Yakima, this agreement is more about our troops working together, which they already do around the world, in fact Canadian ships escort US Carriers regularly and a high ranking Canadian officer was in charge of a US brigade during the Invasion of Iraq. The agreement does allow each other to come to the other's aid. As a Coast Guard diver I was asked to pull bodies out of a US fishboat in Bellingham bay as the USCG did not have the expertise to do so, meanwhile a USCG helicopter based in Alaska would be helping Canadian fisherman on a sinking boat in Canadian waters. this is despite a fairly warlike past between our two countries which only truely receded with the US entry into WWI. Not to mention about 4-5 different border disputes ongoing. maybe the world should take notice on how we work stuff out.

    I suspect that most Canadian soldiers being asked to confiscate guns from US citizens would politily tell the person asking to go do something that I can't even use * in lieu of on this board.

  9. #24
    Member Array CaptOFD92's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cupsz71 View Post
    Sound like a domestic "back-up plan" do to both county's military & resources being stretched thin because of war. If a domestic attack (god forbid) happen again on U.S. or Canadian soil...I believe the general idea is to get the closest troops on scene to secure and provide assistance ASAP. The debate on IF foreign troops would be "stomping on 2nd Amendment rights" and "who's in charge" as I see it, is a short term issue only and the details will be sorted out. (relax people, and stops feeding the paranoia
    the terrorist want)

    Protecting citizens and sovereign territory from further attacks is the first and foremost priority. Neither country can afford to let ANY domestic crisis or attack get out of hand.
    Good Post cupsz71.


    From what I understand of the article is that it sounds like some sort of Mutual Aid agreement between the two countries in a time of need. It sets the stage for the introduction of a Unified Command between our two countries to deal with a national emergency such as a man made/ natural disaster or terrorist/ foreign state sponsored attacks all of which would stretch our resources thin. If we don’t have these type of plans in place when we need them, then we will be hamstrung and behind the eight ball so to speak when the preverbal SHTF happens.

    It isn't unlike what communities and municipalities do with others communities and municipalities in this country. They form “Mutual Aid Agreement” policies with one another to assist in times of need. This is just on a larger scale.

    Besides, after Katrina, the Federal Government has been trying to gear up to meet any other crisis that may come our way. They recognized that better organization is needed from the top down.

    Just as with Katrina, private citizens were utilized extensively to help in the aftermath. The same thing here can apply. We all have a duty to our fellow citizens to protect and care for those in need. It may come to not only defending your home but also defending your country. State militia groups may be formed and you might be working right next to them Canadians.

    CaptOFD92
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  10. #25
    Senior Member Array hudsonvalley's Avatar
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    Article XI. Canada acceding to this confederation, and adjoining in the measures of the United States, shall be admitted into, and entitled to all the advantages of this Union; but no other colony shall be admitted into the same, unless such admission be agreed to by nine States.

    The Articles of Confederation - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

    Articles of Confederation.....Canada came this close to being part of the US.

    Hopefully Canadian troops will never enter our soil as enemies.....
    Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives.
    ---Ronald Reagan

  11. #26
    Member Array chuck brick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigiceman View Post
    I do not immediately jump upon the insidious fears this agreement brings to many. I will say that a radio comment I heard does ring true.

    90% of US military forces when asked said they would not participate in activities like gun grabs that violated the rights of fellow US citizens. I wonder how the Canadians would feel about taking away the guns from people who are not their fellow citizens? Whe the Chinese wanted to quash the students and people in Tienaman Square they brought in troops from rural provinces because the local troops either did refuse or they were afraid they would refuse to brutally supress the demonstrators.

    That does give you something to think about.
    Roman troops were always deployed in foreign territories for this very reason - so they would feel no loyalties to their subjects, but only to their commanders.
    Sadly, I feel this is also why the CHP troopers had no qualms about their despicable role in the NOLA gun-grab and other personal abuses. They were US citizens, in the US, but out of their own territory. Why would Canadian troops in the US be any more caring of our rights than these US citizens that were sworn to uphold and protect the citizens and their rights? Nothing against the Canadian people, of course; I agree and understand Cupsz71's response, but this isn't about individuals - this is about troops "Taking Orders" and the resultant mob mentality and denial of personal responsibility by each participant in the officially mandated lynching.
    Understand that no-one knows and respects the US military more than I do. Both my grandfathers served, several uncles (a few retired from there), my Dad spent 27 yrs, all three of us siblings were born on military bases, all three of us served (my kid bro recently retired), . . . {enough already!}. However, being that I do bleed Jungle Camo, I also know that the same soldiers that are great individuals off-duty, become soldiers and follow orders when on-duty. That's what they are. That's what they have to be. That's why they are the best.
    That's why I worry.
    The same can be said of the police (I have an uncle that's a sheriff, one that's a deputy, two cousins that are patrolmen, one a constable . . . Yes, I come from a large Southern family! ). They have a tough job, and sometimes they have to let their own judgement be over-ridden by policy or orders or they couldn't effectively do their job.
    Sucks at times, but it's the way it is.
    When at war, this works best for the soldiers.
    In day-to-day traffic/cops-n-robbers/drugs-n-hookers scenario, this benefits the cops AND society.
    It's when TSHTF that all goes awry, and the best of the best line troops suddenly have to decline orders (against everything they've been taught, and kept alive by) or become the monsters they are supposed to protect us from. Those at the top that gave the orders, and even those mid-level persons that passed on the orders, are the true criminals.
    I choose to believe (wishful thinking, maybe) that many of the NO cops that "deserted" were actually voting with their feet and left because they refused to take part in that blatant act of tyranny.
    I know I may seem to be argueing in circles, but only paints come in stark white and/or flat black. Anything human is every color imaginable (sometimes all at once). Every coin has two sides; humans have many more than that.
    I am not defending the CHP's and others in NOLA; their actions made my blood boil then, and still does when I think about it.
    Enough rant. I return you to your usual (sane?) programming.

    Stay safe,

    Chuck Brick.
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  12. #27
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    I would not be surprised to find out that this was initiated in response to Katrina. If you recall part of the problem with getting aid into the damaged areas was that something like 90% of the local national guard troops and their equipment were deployed over seas. This agreement ( as I see it) would allow Canadian troops and their helicopters etc. to come down and start fishing for folks in NOLA on short notice. We could have Canadian engineers helping to repair levees, and get airfields back in service. This could be a very good thing.
    But of course, there is the potential for abuse.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    In every law and agreement there is always the "Spirit of the _______" and then there is the interpretation as needed, and if it is not specifically stated or excepted, then it can and will be worked in. Lawyers, politicians, (and others) are a lower form of life.

    The US Govt. can easily say that if the US population (or a significant group thereof) is trying to overthrow the Govt (as is our Constitutional right), that would certainly be a "Civil Emergency".

    How many does it take to no longer be a "Collection of fanatics" (Montana Freemen and others) to become a movement for the country?
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  14. #29
    Member Array JeffLrrp's Avatar
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    Oh dear. time to get me a sks.
    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . .
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  15. #30
    Member Array JeffLrrp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Is CA finally due to fall off into the ocean?
    - Janq
    I hope so.
    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . .
    ----- Thomas Jefferson

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