Lawyer: Pennsylvania sheriffs control gun permits too much

Lawyer: Pennsylvania sheriffs control gun permits too much

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  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    Lawyer: Pennsylvania sheriffs control gun permits too much

    This from the local newspaper today... another sheriff who thinks carrying is a privlage and not a right

    Lawyer: Pennsylvania sheriffs control gun permits too much - Chambersburg Public Opinion

    By DAN NEPHIN Associated Press writer


    A sheriff revoked a retired teacher's firearm-carrying permit but under state law, doesn't have to specify why.
    The man's lawyer and a gun rights group say what happened to Gary A. Young shows that sheriffs may have too much discretion deciding who can legally carry concealed guns.

    "There is no record to justify the action of the sheriff of Crawford County except for the sheriff's own conclusionary letter based upon nothing that the court can consider except that it is one man's opinion," Young's attorney, J. Michael McCormick, wrote in court papers filed earlier this month.

    In his Feb. 13 letter, Sheriff Walter C. Hoke told Young that he was revoking the permit because Young's "character and reputation is such that (he) would be likely to act in a manner dangerous to the public."

    Hoke, who took office this year, on Monday declined to specify why he took away Young's gun permit, but said he would not have revoked the permit without reason.

    "We can only try to guess as to why the sheriff would do this," McCormick said. "My opinion is that that letter should have contained the sheriff's reason for revoking."

    McCormick said Young was denied due process. A hearing is scheduled for April 24 in Crawford County Court, during which Hoke will have to state his reason for revoking the permit.

    McCormick said he's challenging Young's revocation and believes the firearms code is unconstitutionally vague.

    Daniel Pehrson, the founder and president of the Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association, told The Associated Press that "allowing any official to arbitrarily insert their own biases into the process is a situation that could become disastrous if used to deny people their right based not on their legal ability, but on other factors which are unrelated."
    Young had the permit for seven years, but had to turn it in on Feb. 19. He was not required to surrender weapons, according to McCormick.

    Young, 60, of Guys Mills, referred questions to McCormick. He is a retired teacher and former Marine who fought and was injured by a grenade in Vietnam, McCormick said.

    "He's led a very responsible life, and he's been quite a good citizen," McCormick said of Young.

    Young disputes Hoke's characterization of him in court papers. Had Hoke investigated Young's character and reputation, he would have realized he wouldn't be likely to act dangerously, his appeal said.

    Jim Hazen, executive director of the Pennsylvania Sheriff's Association, said the group doesn't track how often permits are revoked. Nor does the Pennsylvania State Police.

    Hazen said he was aware of a similar case in Franklin County recently in which a man had his license revoked, but got it back on appeal.

    Hazen said he didn't think any sheriff would revoke a permit arbitrarily.

    "License to carry is a privilege, not a right," said Hazen, who likened the permit to a driver's license.

    In 2006 in Pennsylvania, more than 102,000 people had permits to carry, according to state police. Numbers are not available for 2007.


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    Weeeellllll, I think a positive Heller decision in June may go a long way to changing that particular rule.

    personally, I would drag that Sheriff into open court, and make him come up with some reason as to why a law-abiding veteran and retired teacher cannot have the same rights to carry as anyone else.

    In fact, if he called the mans' character into question, I would sue him for libel.....
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

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    I am trying to fit this in with ''SHALL ISSUE" - and if a permit is not granted/renewed then sure as heck there needs to be a reason given as to why. Is the NIC's clean? If so then it is not for a Sheriff to arbitrarily decide on his own whim that a guy has no dice rolling his way.

    The 2006 figures given seem way inaccurate - with 6.75% supposed uptake in PA I make the figure more like 720,000! I have a graph somewhere from a few years back - will try and find it.

    Guess I was always lucky with my local SO - altho Sheriff is now changed so - see what happens at next renewal in four years time.!!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Ahh - forget source but this was 2001!!!

    Chris - P95
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    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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    Senior Member Array rmarkob's Avatar
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    There's lots more on this situation at pafoa.org. Something about being involved in a custody suit his son had with the son's ex, IIRC. Nothing that sounds sufficient for revocation though. We'll know more when it plays out in court next month.
    Clinging to guns and God in PA...

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    Senior Member Array hudsonvalley's Avatar
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    Excuse me....P95CARRY.....Where do you get the great graphics?
    Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives.
    ---Ronald Reagan

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    Exclamation A Very Ignorant Person Here: Jim Hazen

    Jim Hazen, executive director of the Pennsylvania Sheriff's Association, said the group doesn't track how often permits are revoked. Nor does the Pennsylvania State Police.

    Hazen said he was aware of a similar case in Franklin County recently in which a man had his license revoked, but got it back on appeal.

    Hazen said he didn't think any sheriff would revoke a permit arbitrarily.

    "License to carry is a privilege, not a right," said Hazen, who likened the permit to a driver's license.
    The dolt does not even understand 2A! A politician, no doubt!


  7. #7
    BAC
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    VIP Member Array BAC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edr9x23super View Post
    Weeeellllll, I think a positive Heller decision in June may go a long way to changing that particular rule.
    How so? The two cases aren't related at all.


    -B

  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry View Post
    I am trying to fit this in with ''SHALL ISSUE" - and if a permit is not granted/renewed then sure as heck there needs to be a reason given as to why. Is the NIC's clean? If so then it is not for a Sheriff to arbitrarily decide on his own whim that a guy has no dice rolling his way.

    The 2006 figures given seem way inaccurate - with 6.75% supposed uptake in PA I make the figure more like 720,000! I have a graph somewhere from a few years back - will try and find it.

    Guess I was always lucky with my local SO - altho Sheriff is now changed so - see what happens at next renewal in four years time.!!

    I was thinking that number seemed a little off myself. I remember when I went to go get mine the sheriff deputy at the time said there was roughly 8,000 permits in our county alone. Seemed rather odd that there were only 94,000 left in the state...

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array mrreynolds's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    I would suggest you apply via Centre County very pro-2A Sheriff

    Denny Nau, Sheriff

    Centre County Sheriff
    213 East High Street
    Bellefonte PA 16823

    Phone: (814) 355-6803
    E-mail: dbnau@co.centre.pa.us

    Hours: 8:30 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. Monday - Friday

  10. #10
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    P95CARRY.....Where do you get the great graphics?
    Hudson - as I mentioned I forget entirely where I snagged that graph but it has been around a while.

    Add to that I recall another source giving the actual percentage as around 6.75% uptake on permits.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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