ACLU's Definition of "The People" - Page 3

ACLU's Definition of "The People"

This is a discussion on ACLU's Definition of "The People" within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Again, unless the proposed definition for "the people" in the 2nd Amendment is also applicable to "the people" in the Preamble, the ACLU's proposal is ...

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Thread: ACLU's Definition of "The People"

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array Cthulhu's Avatar
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    Again, unless the proposed definition for "the people" in the 2nd Amendment is also applicable to "the people" in the Preamble, the ACLU's proposal is male bovine excrement, and a pathetic back end attempt to subvert the 2nd Amendment.

    Funny, how they ignore the REST of the document...i.e., the Preamble.

    Cretins.

    -JT


  2. #32
    Member Array mousehunter's Avatar
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    I suspect, and perhaps incorrectly, that most such phrases would infer that we the people would represent the people governed by the document. Immediately after ratification, Indians would not have been governed by the newly created nation. Slaves, as property, also were not - their owners however for the most part were.


    Anyway, many liberals have a hard time with the English language. Phrases like "Congress shall pass no laws" and "shall not be infringed" are just too confusing.

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    I believe we, on this board, are arguing the same thing. Scemantics and the English Language are where are disagreement lies.

    I believe by prefacing the 2nd admendment with the milita, they were saying what the 2nd admendment was for: to ensure the survival of a ready militia. The way they chose to ensure that survival was to guarantee the right of the citizens to 'keep and bear arms'.

    I believe, in it's truest sense, the intent of the 2nd admendment by the Founding Fathers would include military arms.

    By accepting that the 2nd admendment is talking about a milita, it helps to define the word 'arms' that the militia is guaranteed to possess. i.e. military arms.

    Once that is established, we have to look at who the militia was at the time of the writing. And that was white males between 18-45. Through the 14th admendment, we would have to change 'white males between 18-45' to every citizen of the United States.

    And as far as 'SHALL NOT be infringed', well, I think it says what it means pretty clearly.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  4. #34
    Member Array eyeCalypso's Avatar
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    So do you think the ACLU is going to change its official possition and recognize that the 2nd Amendment applies to "the people" like the rest of the Bill of Rights when the Supreme Court (I'm confident) confirms individual rights?
    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides...” (Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria)

  5. #35
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post


    And I agree with you. All law-abiding citizens DO have the right to own arms, but not because of the 2nd amendment.
    If it is a "right of the people" then it extends to anyone recognized as having full rights. So now, constitutionally, Women, Indians, Blacks and even resident legal Aliens are "the people". The redefining of who "the people" are has occurred. In the constitution. So, in fact, they are extended recognized rights as such.

    The definition of Militia is separated by comma's and is a separate definition from "the people" who have rights.

  6. #36
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    I guess what I meant to say, is that I don't recognize the government's authority to 'grant' me the right to bear arms. The RKBA is inherrent.
    The people have the right to keep and bear arms, and to defend themselves. The 2nd admendment does not grant that right, it only reaffirms it.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

    http://miscmusings.townhall.com/

    Who is John Galt?

  7. #37
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    Not only does it reaffirm it... it precludes the Federal Government from infringing upon it.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Array ronwill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    I guess what I meant to say, is that I don't recognize the government's authority to 'grant' me the right to bear arms. The RKBA is inherrent.
    The people have the right to keep and bear arms, and to defend themselves. The 2nd admendment does not grant that right, it only reaffirms it.
    The thing to remember here is that the Bill Of Rights wasn't written to "grant" rights but to protect them from the government.

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