ATC weighing in on National Parks carry -- LONG

This is a discussion on ATC weighing in on National Parks carry -- LONG within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; See emails below As a life member of the ATC and as a life member of the NRA, I take strong objection to the anti-Second ...

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Thread: ATC weighing in on National Parks carry -- LONG

  1. #1
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    ATC weighing in on National Parks carry -- LONG

    See emails below
    As a life member of the ATC and as a life member of the NRA, I take strong
    objection to the anti-Second Amendment tone of the attached.

    I would have no problem with this subject being communicated to the trail
    community -- were the messages to suggest that this is an important issue and
    about which the members should communicate their personal opinions to their
    various US Senators and Congressional Representatives.

    However, the following email introduces an one-sided point-of-view on a
    divisive issue. How would the Club members feel, were I introduced/forwarded
    the emails that I receive from the National Rifle Association, Gun Owners of
    America, Virginia Citizens Defense League, etc?

    After all, what is good for the goose....

    If you are happy with postings from one side of this and related issues, I'll
    be happy to accommodate the club members with those from another point of
    view.

    Dave Hicks

    ----- Original Message -----
    >>
    From: SNIP
    To: SNIP
    Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 3:39 PM
    Subject: FW: Guns in Parks and Refuges


    Virginia RPC and Club Presidents,

    The two messages below discuss an effort to overturn current
    regulations on possession of loaded firearms in National Parks and Wildlife
    Refuges. I wasn't aware of such an initiative so wanted to bring it to you
    and your club's attention. If you believe the current regulations regarding
    guns on the AT and in National Parks are correct, then you may want to make
    your support for them known to your Congressional senators and
    representatives. All the information you need is in the attachments, although
    Jo-Ann Davis' name continues to be listed, despite her death last year. In
    the event the subject is brought up at the SPM, I wanted you all to be aware.
    Thanks, Ned




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: SNIP@appalachiantrail.org]
    Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 9:44 AM
    To: SNIP
    Subject: FW: Guns in Parks and Refuges



    This is a wonderful initiative by PATC. I am also sharing with ATC regional
    office staff and the other RPC chairs; the New England, Virginia and the Deep
    South RPCs all meet in the next several weeks.



    I particularly appreciate your sensitivity to hunters and fishermen in our
    ranks. They are our natural allies among the "hook & bullet" crowd. We don't
    oppose the lawful and traditional uses of our public lands for sports pursuits
    like hunting, just the election-year, 2nd amendment politicking and that seems
    a malady peculiar to the USA. Your list of parks and refuges is particularly
    sobering in those respects.

    SNIP

    From: SNIP
    Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 8:38 PM
    Subject: Guns in Parks and Refuges

    The Potomac Appalachian Trail Club is writing to you and other trail
    enthusiasts throughout Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, West Virginia, and
    the District of Columbia to call your attention to an issue of serious
    concern.

    In recent months, the National Rifle Association has launched a
    concerted effort, aimed at both the U.S. Congress and the U.S. Department of
    the Interior, to overturn current regulations on possession of loaded firearms
    in National Parks and Wildlife Refuges. Current regulations generally
    prohibit individuals from possessing guns in parks and refuges unless they are
    unloaded or are packed, cased, or stored in a manner that will prevent their
    ready use. (See 36 CFR 2.4 and 50 CFR 27.42.)

    Legislation to change these regulations has been introduced in both the
    House and Senate: H.R. 5434 by Representative Jeb Hensarling (TX) and S. 2619
    by Senator Tom Coburn (OK). In addition, on February 22, Secretary of the
    Interior Dirk Kempthorne announced a plan to make changes administratively by
    starting a rulemaking process to "update" existing firearms regulations to
    reflect ".the laws by which the host States govern transporting and carrying
    firearms on their analogous public lands." Secretary Kempthorne said he will
    issue the proposed rule changes by April 30 for public comment.

    The Potomac Appalachian Trail Club strongly opposes legislative or
    administrative changes to current park and refuge firearms regulations. If
    Congress or the Interior Department overturns the current firearms
    restrictions, we believe places like the Appalachian National Scenic Trail,
    trails of Shenandoah National Park, the Chesapeake and Ohio Canal National
    Historical Park and the Potomac Heritage National Scenic Trail would be put at
    risk. The sense of sanctuary and safety experienced by our members in these
    areas would be lost, natural and cultural park resources would be threatened,
    and poaching (already a growing problem) would become more prevalent.

    PATC has worked closely with you and other trail enthusiasts over the
    years to establish, maintain and preserve hiking trails in Pennsylvania,
    Maryland, Virginia, West Virginia and the District of Columbia. Now it's time
    to protect our investment!

    We hope you'll join us in opposing this threat to the well-being of
    our parks and refuges and visitor enjoyment of them. If you share our
    concerns, here's what you can do to help:

    1) Write to your Senators and Member of Congress:

    Ask them to oppose legislative efforts to change existing park and
    refuge regulations.

    Tell them that existing regulations are reasonable and sensibly serve
    to protect park resources, visitors, and wildlife.

    Allowing loaded guns in parks and refuges could lead to a dramatic
    increase in random and unnecessary killing of wildlife.

    Allowing loaded guns in parks and refuges would degrade the visitor
    experience, jeopardize safety, and put natural and cultural park resources at
    risk.

    2) Educate and activate your own networks. Forward this e-mail.
    Circulate the attached, one page "Action Alert." It's important that
    Congress hear from more than one side of this debate. Attached is a list of
    National Park Service areas and wildlife refuges that would be affected by the
    proposals in PA, MD, VA, WV, and DC. Also attached are names, addresses, and
    phone numbers of Members of Congress.

    3) Plan to comment on Secretary Kempthorne's proposed regulatory
    changes when they are issued at the end of April. Stay tuned to
    potomacappalachian.org - Home for more information.

    Thanks for any help you can give. If you'd like PATC to send you further
    information on this issue as events develop, please send your name and e-mail
    address to
    SNIP.
    <<
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Ugh...Now I remember why I never joined them. It's sad really. I live within a mile of a trail entrance for the ATC and have never set foot on it. On the contrary, I drive seemingly endless hours to get to various National Forest lands to do my hiking, camping, etc...
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    Ugh... I drive seemingly endless hours to get to various National Forest lands to do my hiking, camping, etc...
    Here in SWVA the AT is on USFS land, not Park land. All the more reason that an officer our local maintaining club forwarding the email to the local club members was out of line -- IMHO.

    Albeit, individual members might have an issue, it is not an issue for our local club to be taking a stand on.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    Here in SWVA the AT is on USFS land, not Park land. All the more reason that an officer our local maintaining club forwarding the email to the local club members was out of line -- IMHO.

    Albeit, individual members might have an issue, it is not an issue for our local club to be taking a stand on.
    yeah, but I believe (and I could very well be wrong) that the trail and boundaries themselves are still under the purview of the NPS no matter what it runs through.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    yeah, but I believe (and I could very well be wrong) that the trail and boundaries themselves are still under the purview of the NPS no matter what it runs through.
    See:

    Hunting and the A.T. - Appalachian Trail Conservancy

    Although administered by the NPS, the AT is a National Scenic Trail -- not a National Park. There are others see: FCIC: National Trails System Map and Guide

    They like to hide the the issue of defensive carry -- by only talking about hunting.

    Hunting is not allowed in a National Park, unless specifically authorized. Hunting (and IMHO therefore defensive carry) is PERMITTED along approximately 1,250 miles of the Appalachian Trail through national forest lands, national recreation areas, and on state forests and game lands. Note: local & State gun laws my well apply.

    Hunting is PROHIBITED for only approximately 900 miles of the Trail through national parks (like Shenandoah and the Great Smoky Mountains), most (but not all) state parks, and on lands acquired by the National Park Service exclusively for the Appalachian Trail.

    Even some LEO get it wrong, IMHO.

    Want to see how convoluted this is do a search on 'hunting" on: A National Monument, Memorial, Park . . . What's the Difference?
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

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    Just cancelled my ATC and PATC membership.

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    Thanks for the post.

    I’ll be writing my senators, and congressmen again, and express my 2A thoughts, and that the ATC does not speak for rest of the country.

    However, I should state that I’ve already received letters from both of our senators, and my House representative, stating they support 2A and the national park changes.

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