ABC News: U.S. Is Arming Mexican Drug Cartels - Page 2

ABC News: U.S. Is Arming Mexican Drug Cartels

This is a discussion on ABC News: U.S. Is Arming Mexican Drug Cartels within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Ron I watched the story on ABC New last night, and my reaction is: if it is illegtal to own guns in ...

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Thread: ABC News: U.S. Is Arming Mexican Drug Cartels

  1. #16
    Member Array libertarian5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    I watched the story on ABC New last night, and my reaction is: if it is illegtal to own guns in Mexico, and guns are being smuggled across the border, how does it now bcome the responsibility of the US to police the border, given that ownership of guns in the US by law abiiding citizens is legal. Ir is cleaely the responsibiliry of the Mexican government to police their borders to prevent illegal items from entering their country, including guns.

    But, that was not the thrust of the news report. Infuriating.

    Ron
    Then the reverse should also be true. We should stop whining about the Mexican government's unwillingness to control the flow of it's own people around the border. Especially since we would be crying foul if our government tried to control our constitutionally protected rights to travel.

    As someone who works and travels in Mexico quite often, I can assure you that the Mexican Federal Government is trying hard to stop the flow of drugs out, and guns in. It's entire future depends upon it. There is what amounts to a war going on down there between the drug cartels and the government. Many of the local police departments are corrupt and controlled by the cartels, who methodically kill anyone who resists. That is why the federal government there has been occupying many border cities and taking over the police departments. This has created a huge demand for weapons by the cartels, who openly recruit ex-military and others to join in a war with the government and other cartels. It is understandable that the Mexican government would like to see more gun control or a total ban in the USA. Really, it is not any different than the police thinking in some large US cities.

    It IS illegal to haul drugs out of Mexico, and every northbound car, truck, semi, and bus heading towards the US is stopped and searched 4-6 times at roadblocks within 300 or so miles of the border. In contrast, we do nothing on this side to limit traffic going south.


  2. #17
    Senior Member Array agentmel's Avatar
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    This whole issue confuses me. Do drug criminals mostly kill other criminals? If so, what's the problem?

    The same as with the prohibition of alcohol, the only reason there is a problem with drug crime is that drugs are illegal. If drugs were de-illegalized most drug crime would completely disappear within probably less than a year. You never hear about employees of Budweiser perpetrating a drive-by on employees of Coors. Alcohol is probably more potentially dangerous than, say, pot is.

    I would like to think that the members of this forum would realize the danger posed by government limiting the liberty of the people.

    I seriously doubt it will happen, though. Not anytime soon.

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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by libertarian5 View Post
    Then the reverse should also be true. We should stop whining about the Mexican government's unwillingness to control the flow of it's own people around the border. Especially since we would be crying foul if our government tried to control our constitutionally protected rights to travel.

    As someone who works and travels in Mexico quite often, I can assure you that the Mexican Federal Government is trying hard to stop the flow of drugs out, and guns in. It's entire future depends upon it. There is what amounts to a war going on down there between the drug cartels and the government. Many of the local police departments are corrupt and controlled by the cartels, who methodically kill anyone who resists. That is why the federal government there has been occupying many border cities and taking over the police departments. This has created a huge demand for weapons by the cartels, who openly recruit ex-military and others to join in a war with the government and other cartels. It is understandable that the Mexican government would like to see more gun control or a total ban in the USA. Really, it is not any different than the police thinking in some large US cities.

    It IS illegal to haul drugs out of Mexico, and every northbound car, truck, semi, and bus heading towards the US is stopped and searched 4-6 times at roadblocks within 300 or so miles of the border. In contrast, we do nothing on this side to limit traffic going south.
    Then perhaps the Mexican Federal Government wasn't thinking too clearly when they published materials telling their citizens how to cross the border unlawfully with the lowest risks of getting caught....

    The Graphic - Guide promotes illegal immigration

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  4. #19
    Ron
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    Quote Originally Posted by libertarian5 View Post
    Then the reverse should also be true. We should stop whining about the Mexican government's unwillingness to control the flow of it's own people around the border. Especially since we would be crying foul if our government tried to control our constitutionally protected rights to travel.

    As someone who works and travels in Mexico quite often, I can assure you that the Mexican Federal Government is trying hard to stop the flow of drugs out, and guns in. It's entire future depends upon it. There is what amounts to a war going on down there between the drug cartels and the government. Many of the local police departments are corrupt and controlled by the cartels, who methodically kill anyone who resists. That is why the federal government there has been occupying many border cities and taking over the police departments. This has created a huge demand for weapons by the cartels, who openly recruit ex-military and others to join in a war with the government and other cartels. It is understandable that the Mexican government would like to see more gun control or a total ban in the USA. Really, it is not any different than the police thinking in some large US cities.

    It IS illegal to haul drugs out of Mexico, and every northbound car, truck, semi, and bus heading towards the US is stopped and searched 4-6 times at roadblocks within 300 or so miles of the border. In contrast, we do nothing on this side to limit traffic going south.
    I agree that it is our responsibility to police our borders. My point simply is that the fact that the Mexican government has a problem with their drug cartels is not justification for us giving up any of our Second Amendment rights, and IMO that was the underlying implication of the news story.

    Ron
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  5. #20
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    It sure seems like this is a vicious circle. The American people want the drugs that come through Mexico, (not all Americans, but the ones that do the drugs), and the drug dealers want the guns that come from the USA. The more guns go down the Mexico, the more likely there will be drugs brought up into the USA, thereby making our problems up here worse. More people in jail, more broken families, more money spent on enforcement, more drug wars in this country.

    Regardless of what slant there was to the story, it does seem that it will have an effect on us here. If the statement that 2,000 of the 4,300 that were killed were leo's that is quite a staggering figure. If the numbers of leo's in this country were that high, I am sure that we would take drastic measure here, wouldn't we?
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  6. #21
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    So,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, if there is a problem in another country, we should get our Constitution changed here?
    And,,,,, it's real easy to see a partnership between the Mexicans and the people who believe it is okay for us to be overrun by illegal Mexicans, and pay them for everything when they get here: those people being the same people that want to take our guns away from us anyway.
    It should be a law that every politician should take and pass a course on the book,"Atlas Shrugged".
    That partnership between the gun haters and illegals can only happen in the U.S. and then totally ignore the southern border of Mexico, with countries that have been fighting for decades, and have access to all kinds of weapons.

    It is time to hold the news media responsible for being the troublemakers they are. If you and I say things that incite riots and cause trouble, we are held responsible for our words and yet the media hides behind the same 1st Amendment and gets away with it.
    "It does not take a majority to prevail,,,,,,but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams

  7. #22
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    I'll care about Mexico's problem with guns when they care about America's problem with their citizens squatting illegally in my country.

    Till then, I say to the Cartel in their fight with the Mexican government, "Sight alignment, trigger control and good hunting."

    The enemy of my enemy may not be my friend, but I sure as hell don't mind it when they kill each other.

  8. #23
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    So if both governments (the US and Mexico) are so worried about illegal trafficking - then fix it!! I for one see a whole lot of lip service from politicians but no solutions. I find it absolutely comical that while all the political wrangling is going on; nothing is being accomplished. It seems to me that there is a lot of "looking the other way" on both sides of the border and no one seems too interested in fixing the problem. Oh and by the way - if Mexico wants to fix the problem repeal their crazy gun laws and let the normal citizen protect themselves!!!
    "Do not fear those who disagree with you; fear those that do and are too cowardly to admit it" - Napoleon

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Easy fix. Hit straw-purchasers hard. Enforce the laws we have. I know there are some dedicated guys in Mexican LE, but really, if several thousand have been killed, it's because they were on opposing sides in a gang war. I think it was in Chihuahua or Nueva Laredo where the President sent in the army and disarmed the police, because of their corruption. Give me a friggin break.

  10. #25
    Member Array libertarian5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    I'll care about Mexico's problem with guns when they care about America's problem with their citizens squatting illegally in my country.

    Till then, I say to the Cartel in their fight with the Mexican government, "Sight alignment, trigger control and good hunting."

    The enemy of my enemy may not be my friend, but I sure as hell don't mind it when they kill each other.

    I find it impossible to imagine how a violent overthrow of the Mexican government by the drug cartels would in some way solve the problem of illegal immigration. It would only make it worse, and a destabilized Mexico could be our worst nightmare.

    This is a multi-billion dollar industry and they aren't just buying guns. They are buying real estate all over the USA and moving their criminal enterprises in. They have lots of money so they can do it easily and legally. If and when we succeed in kicking all those "squatters" out we will still have them.

    We should do everything we can to make sure that the government of Mexico is successful in stopping these guys. If they don't do it there we will have to do it here soon.

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by libertarian5 View Post
    I find it impossible to imagine how a violent overthrow of the Mexican government by the drug cartels would in some way solve the problem of illegal immigration. It would only make it worse, and a destabilized Mexico could be our worst nightmare.

    This is a multi-billion dollar industry and they aren't just buying guns. They are buying real estate all over the USA and moving their criminal enterprises in. They have lots of money so they can do it easily and legally. If and when we succeed in kicking all those "squatters" out we will still have them.

    We should do everything we can to make sure that the government of Mexico is successful in stopping these guys. If they don't do it there we will have to do it here soon.
    Nobody is going to stop if from south of the border.

    The only way illegal immigration will be stopped is when the United States decides to take all appropriate actions and close the border to illegals, stop making life easy for them while they are here and deport them once they are captured.

    I care nothing for the Mexican government. They are only interested in exporting their surplus population to the United States to cover up their own failings on the home front, while blaming the United States for those failings.


    Their problems mean nothing to me until I see a good faith effort to solve them.

    Until that, let them bleed.

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array cdwolf's Avatar
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    I wonder how many of them I need to round up,to trade for a good AR??
    I will sign up to the "trade a illegal Mexican, for a gun" program!!
    GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN

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  13. #28
    VIP Member Array deadeye72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdwolf View Post
    I wonder how many of them I need to round up,to trade for a good AR??
    I will sign up to the "trade a illegal Mexican, for a gun" program!!

    I'm in.
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  14. #29
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    Folks, this is what you get when JTF-6 renames itself and pretty much pulls out of guarding the borders.
    Little do most folks know, but JTF-6 used to patrol the Mexican border pretty heavily back in the 80s and 90s.
    What was JTF-6? The United States Military. And yes, the United States Military was actively engaged in eliminating drug/gun runners from plying their trade across our southern border.
    But then came the Clinton era, the Marine sniper incident, and 9/11 and you haven't heard a peep about it since.

  15. #30
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    Maybe Mexico should build a fence.
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