Only 192 citizen justifiable homicides in 2005?

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    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Only 192 citizen justifiable homicides in 2005?

    Did you know that in 2005 there were only 192 justifiable homicides by citizens in self-defense compared to over 12,000 gun homicides?

    This according to the Freedom States Alliance, in an email they sent me today.

    And where do they get these numbers? Well now, they don't say. Even a quick check of their website doesn't show the source of this statistic.
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    I'd be interested to know where that number came from. Murder stats are usually from the FBI report, but if a justifiable shooting happens and doesn't make it past the grand jury, I wonder who keeps a record of it?

    Maybe it is based off of cases that made it to trial and were found to be justifiable homicide? No basis for that, just thinkin out loud.

    Besides, one doesn't need to kill a BG to use a firearm in self defense
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    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyeLCPL View Post
    I'd be interested to know where that number came from. Murder stats are usually from the FBI report, but if a justifiable shooting happens and doesn't make it past the grand jury, I wonder who keeps a record of it?

    Maybe it is based off of cases that made it to trial and were found to be justifiable homicide? No basis for that, just thinkin out loud.

    Besides, one doesn't need to kill a BG to use a firearm in self defense
    I think the majority of handgun GSWs are non-fatal... Anyone know the approximate percentages?

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    Member Array TravisABQ's Avatar
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    I'm sure that HCI is still counting them in their tally of "murdered children" though.

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    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    the majority of the time, the defender doesn't even need to fire his gun to defend himself, much less wound or kill his attacker.

    This 192 number is cooked, no different than the famous 14 times more likely to shoot your own child than use your gun in self-defense. For that one, "children" was anyone under 21 (or was it 25, I can't remember), and using the gun in self defense was only counted if the intruder was killed.

    I expect there are similar fallacies behind this number.
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    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Did you know that in 2005 there were only 192 justifiable homicides by citizens in self-defense compared to over 12,000 gun homicides?

    This according to the Freedom States Alliance, in an email they sent me today.

    And where do they get these numbers? Well now, they don't say. Even a quick check of their website doesn't show the source of this statistic.
    Expanded Homicide Data - Crime in the United States 2005

    Law enforcement reported 533 justifiable homicides. Of those, law enforcement officers justifiably killed 341 individuals, and private citizens justifiably killed 192 individuals.
    They must have gotten their gun homicide numbers somewhere else though:

    Expanded Homicide Data Table 7 - Crime in the United States 2005

    The above link shows a little over 10k firearm homicides in 2005.
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    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanislaskasava View Post
    I think the majority of handgun GSWs are non-fatal... Anyone know the approximate percentages?
    I heard the numbers 70% chance someone will live if shot with a handgun.

    Besides, what was fatal 10 years ago is now just a really bad evening because of better medicine.

    A guy who is shot in the gut by his intended victim with a .38 spcl 10 years ago may have died...today, better trauma care keeps him alive to go to jail, thus, no justifiable homicide to report.

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    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravisABQ View Post
    I'm sure that HCI is still counting them in their tally of "murdered children" though.

    --Travis--
    OO yeah those harmless Mara Salvatrucha/Latin Kings/18th street members etc.....Save the children.
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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanislaskasava View Post
    I think the majority of handgun GSWs are non-fatal... Anyone know the approximate percentages?
    I don't know overall stats but according to the CDC over 90% of GSW victims that make it into the E.R. survive.

    As far as their stats go about the justifiable homicides..... I guess we could say of all of the violent felons justifiably killed every year, almost forty percent of those were killed by private citizens!
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    Distinguished Member Array 4my sons's Avatar
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    I read somewhere also, the FBI doesn't update their stats, if a shooting goes to trial, it's already classified and if the GG is cleared, the classification of homicide doesn't get changed to Justified. More work for them when it's just numbers on paper that they don't care about anyway.

    I'll see if I can find the link to the study. Unless someone knows the article and has it handy.

    ETA:

    Over the five year period, 1993-1996, the police committed justifiable homicide an average of 398 times per year.[10] During the same period, the civilian public committed justifiable homicide an average of 299 times per year.[11] This latter figure may be lower than the true number if the FBI is unable to obtain the final outcomes of cases initially incorrectly categorized as unjustified. There were an average of 262.8 million people in the country[12] and 581,496 sworn police[13] during these same years.
    The sources refereed to:
    10. FBI STATISTICS, http://www.fbi.gov/pressr./pressrel/...es.1997rel.htm
    11. CRIME IN THE UNITED STATES, http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/Cius_97/95Crimes6.pdf
    12. STATISTICAL ABSTRACT OF THE UNITED STATES, Statistical Abstract of the United States

    The link to the whole article

    Saint Louis University Public Law Review

    Once again, who knows what the actual numbers are, I would hazard to guess that they should be bigger in favor of our argument and not smaller.
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