Reasonable Gun Control

This is a discussion on Reasonable Gun Control within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by HotGuns " Reasonable Gun Control " is a myth. It always has been and it will always be. Every single law or ...

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Thread: Reasonable Gun Control

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    "Reasonable Gun Control" is a myth. It always has been and it will
    always be.

    Every single law or regulation dealing with guns started out being "reasonable".

    The real fly in the ointment is that what is reasonable to me, may not be to you...or vice versa.

    I think that it is reasonable to own some very high powered rifles. Politicians in several states do not.
    I think that it is reasonable to own semi auto versions of assault weapons.Politicians in several states do not.
    I think that it is reasonable to be able to walk home with my gun when I pay for it. Politicians is several states do not.
    I think that it reasonable to be able to suppress a rifle or pistol for target shooting or hunting...guess what, Politicians in several states do not.

    The problem is, that we dont make the law. Politicians do and they really dont care what me or you think about it.

    Anyone that thinks there is "reasonable gun control" needs to take some history courses and study up. Maybe then, you'll be able to see how history has taken its course, with reasonable gun control.

    Agree on your Reasonable restrictions Hotguns however I want to add some of my own reasonable restrictions.

    I think it should have been reasonable to pay 3-4 hundred dollars for my uzi since that is what LE enforcement pays for a gun like that. Instead of having to fork over the $7,000 dollars I had to for my machine gun.

    I think its reasonable to pay $1,000 for a Brand new MP-5 instead of having to drop $16,000 for one that was manufactured in 86 and may be in OK condition.
    Last edited by Rob99VMI04; June 8th, 2008 at 03:59 PM.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

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  3. #62
    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    Any gun control law is based on the idea that criminals obey laws. Rob99VMI04 mentions the super inflated prices of legally acquired NFA weapons---I would not be surprised if career criminals could get them illegally at much lower prices.

    My opinion is that reasonable gun control would be to get rid of all federal, state, or local gun control laws other than the second amendment.

  4. #63
    Member Array UtahRSO's Avatar
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    The states should NOT have the power to keep us from keeping and bearing arms. Section 1 of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution mandates that no state "shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

    To me this means that, among other things, no individual state can deny their citizens the provisions enumerated in the Bill of Rights. We would not suffer any state to abridge our right to worship, as an example.

    I doubt the forthcoming Supreme Court decision will go that far as regarding our right to keep and bear arms, but it should. I can hope anyway.
    "None who have always been free can understand
    the terrible fascinating power of the hope of freedom
    to those who are not free."

  5. #64
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    I think it should have been reasonable to pay 3-4 hundred dollars for my uzi since that is what LE enforcement pays for a gun like that. Instead of having to fork over the $7,000 dollars I had to for my machine gun.

    I think its reasonable to pay $1,000 for a Brand new MP-5 instead of having to drop $16,000 for one that was manufactured in 86 and may be in OK condition.
    Sounds good to me.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  6. #65
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulJ View Post
    The term "reasonable gun control" has been abused in the past. I was wondering what the members of this forum consider "reasonable", in particular when it comes to concealed carry permits.
    There is nothing reasonable about gun control, Reasonable Gun Control is an oxymoron and a flagrant violation of the second amendment. Nothing in the second amendment puts conditions or exceptions. Quote A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. By definition gun control is infringement. IMO you are either for 2A or against. Once you open the door to conditions you enter the door to being an anti.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  7. #66
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    There is nothing reasonable about gun control, Reasonable Gun Control is an oxymoron and a flagrant violation of the second amendment. Nothing in the second amendment puts conditions or exceptions. Quote A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. By definition gun control is infringement. IMO you are either for 2A or against. Once you open the door to conditions you enter the door to being an anti.
    Yes, there is reasonable gun control. It means hitting what your shooting at

    LongRider: I've been looking at your avatar now for a few months is that flower or a colored expanded hollowpoint?
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

  8. #67
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    Reasonable gun control will never be agreed upon by any two people and I don't exactly go along with the average person should be the same as a LEO. It is my opinion that I have no objections to:

    In your own home or on your own property I don't care. Somewhere between a BB gun and a Nuke is a reasonable line but I am not going to get into that.

    When you step off of your property and start mingling with the public a different set of "Rights" come into play. Your rights then start to mix with others rights. When carrying in the public:

    Before you are allowed to carry either openly or concealed then you need to know safety and laws. I do not go along with Open Carry is a God given right but concealed is OK to require a permit. They should be the same. Either one should require a permit and some kind of training. How you determine that training is for a different thread. When you walk around in Wal-Mart eating your Nachos with a Glock on your hip you need to know which end of the gun the bullet comes out of.

    Felons and similar should be banned from carrying or owning. You had your chance and chose not to take advantage of it so screw you. If you can get a full pardon then you are no longer a felon. Until then screw you. The person you crippled for life is still suffering so just because youa re ount on parole doesn't mean you have paid you debt to all of society. If you can't find some other way to protect yourself then you should have thought about that sooner.

    Age limit - You can be in the service at 18 but that doesn't necessarily mean you are mature. Even in the service you are guided by your CO and have guidelines to follow. Just because you are 21 it doesn't mean that you are mature enough to go to the bathroom by yourself. We have an age limit on being President and Vice-President but it doesn't seem to increase the qualtiy of Presidential Cantidates. I really think that the old enough to fight argument is BS and I don't think ANY 5 year-old is old enough to walk around with a gun on his shoulder even if it is your precious son. So 18 or 21 isn't going to upset me either way. Go try to rent a car at 21 and see what happens. There isn't any laws covering that but for some reason they seem to think it is.

    The mentally unstable and mentally handicapped are a no-no. If a person can get out of a murder charge due to their mental condition then they don't deserve to be able to carry a gun. I have a friend that told her brother that if he didn't get his dog out of her yard she was going to kill that dog and possibly him. She also told him that there wasn't anything he could do about it because the Supreme Court had ruled that since she had an IQ of 59 she couldn't be charged. She was correct. If a person can't be held accoutable then dang it they don't need a gun.

    Shotguns, rifles and handguns are different and the reasonable restrictions on each should be different.

    Guns and alcohol do not mix. If you are drunk then leave your gun at home, in fact you need to keep your butt at home if you are drunk. I you are at the local Dew Drop Inn playing pool with the boys and drinking beer it may be the one place you might need your gun but no one in there should have one. Having a glass of wine with your meal is different and needs to be treated differently.

    If you want to carry your gun with you while visiting your brother in jail I have no objections to that and actually don't see where it should be treated differently than other places. I can use the same arguments against carrying at jails in most any other place. I like the law in SC where you can't carry in a church without permission from the church. It doesn't ban carrying in churches just says that churches don't have to put up with the government telling them that they have to jump though hoops to separate the church and state. My opinion only. Court houses, police stations, post offices, hospitals, mental wards etc., why not?

    End of ramble for right now.

  9. #68
    Senior Member Array rmilchman's Avatar
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    FN1910, nicely written and I agree with 99% of it. My only comment would be, if a church has a choice not to allow it. Then ANY other place has the same opportunity.

  10. #69
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmilchman View Post
    FN1910, nicely written and I agree with 99% of it. My only comment would be, if a church has a choice not to allow it. Then ANY other place has the same opportunity.
    I think any property/business owner should be able to ban guns if the want to. My comment about the church is that I think church and state should be separate and churches should not have to take the initiative to ban them. As I said just my opinion.

  11. #70
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    Yes, there is reasonable gun control. It means hitting what your shooting at

    LongRider: I've been looking at your avatar now for a few months is that flower or a colored expanded hollowpoint?
    OK I can live with that
    It's an HST Flower. They bloom very time without fail
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  12. #71
    Senior Member Array PaulJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    Any gun control law is based on the idea that criminals obey laws. Rob99VMI04 mentions the super inflated prices of legally acquired NFA weapons---I would not be surprised if career criminals could get them illegally at much lower prices.

    My opinion is that reasonable gun control would be to get rid of all federal, state, or local gun control laws other than the second amendment.
    Any law, not just gun law, is based on the idea that people obey it. One reason for a law is that you can tell who the bad guys are.
    I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. (Thomas Jefferson)

  13. #72
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    OK I can live with that
    It's an HST Flower. They bloom very time without fail
    WOW neat optional colors on your defensive loads thats cool humm I smell new invenition. At least you'll get the ladies coordiating their defensive ammo with their shoes and purse.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

  14. #73
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    One thing I have found is that "I" am never the one who gets to define "reasonable". It is always some idiot like Pelosi or Obama. Reasonable to me is Vermont or Alaska type carry law. If you are legally able to own a gun, you should be allowed to carry for your protection. The Bill of Rights does not say I have to meet someone's warped sense of "reasonableness" to protect myself. I am a strong advocate of training obviously as I am an instructor but I don't even believe that should be a "requirement". Why? Because once again some idiot I don't even know gets to decide what is good training. Look at the mess they have made of the program for pilots carrying guns on planes. What if their definition of "reasonable training" is at your expense once a year you fly to a swamp in Florida and take Marine sniper training? Not many of us would be able to pass that would we?
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

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  15. #74
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    I would rather use the term " responsible gun control" but at the same time I would have to see what the politicians would use in the definition of the word.
    I would keep it simple... Training is a must! (further details needed on this also) and I see no problem with 21 yrs. of age. (forget about serving our country quite an over used term) Unless we allow 18 yrs to officially sign documents and all business agreements etc.. many states one must be 21 yrs. that is my reasoning for this... I do not want to go to a juveniles parents for problems with one using a weapon.

    We must keep knowledge and training at the fore front. This will be the first areas the law makers will attack on our 2nd amendment rights. I would even recommend being bonded if that would be possible?

    But rest assured Obama and Clinton are much to vague for our own good by simply say... "we need responsible gun legislation" that could me shot guns only for sportman and 22 cal for rifles.. I would not believe a word they say on most subjects... take for eg.. they want responsible spending of tax dollars... now isn't this a laugh... they are both in debt in excess of 20 million in just one year on their own accounts just running for office.. how in the hell are they going to run the nations budget with this fact. Total BS

  16. #75
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    No such thing.
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