presidential executive order?

This is a discussion on presidential executive order? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Obama has publicly stated that he favors prohibition of concealed carry for anyone but ex LEOs. I have been wondering, were he to be elected ...

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    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    presidential executive order?

    Obama has publicly stated that he favors prohibition of concealed carry for anyone but ex LEOs. I have been wondering, were he to be elected president, if he could do so simply by issuing an executive order. Based on some examples and other details in the Wikipedia article, it appears that he could...

    Executive order (United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

    OK, something is already wrong with the link above. Matiki doesn't think there's anything accurate in Wikipedia anyway. Just how unconstitutional do you think presidential executive order 9066 was, which resulted in ethnic Japanese and German US citizens being imprisoned during the Late Great Hate?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    Obama has publicly stated that he favors prohibition of concealed carry for anyone but ex LEOs. I have been wondering, were he to be elected president, if he could do so simply by issuing an executive order. Based on some examples and other details in the Wikipedia article, it appears that he could...

    Executive order (United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    Obama has publicly stated that he favors prohibition of concealed carry for anyone but ex LEOs. I have been wondering, were he to be elected president, if he could do so simply by issuing an executive order.
    I rather suspect quite a few of the states here in the West, which have RKBA in their state constitutions, might have a few words to say if he tried...

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    I believe Executive Orders apply only to the actions of Federal Departments and Agencies and their employees and contractors. So, an Executive Order could require ICE to treat travelers crossing the border in a particular way. But, an EO could not forbid you or me from playing video games.

    A president can, for example only, order that firearms be prohibited from Federal property, but that is already pretty much the case.

    He could ask DOT, for example, to strictly enforce existing law on the transport of guns and ammo-- and to promulgate additional new regulations. But these would have to conform to existing law.

    The President is not the dictator of the US and he does not by himself make law. (Of course some presidents have thought they were, and could.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I believe Executive Orders apply only to the actions of Federal Departments and Agencies and their employees and contractors.
    He may only be able to tell Federal Departments and Agencies and their employees and contractors what to do. But "what they do" can change have an impact on individuals and States.

    You might want to look at EXECUTIVE ORDER 10730 for a look at how that can play out. (Not trying to open a can of worms on the content here. Just saying that the Executive Orders can have an impact of the lives of everyone -- for the good or the bad.)

    EXECUTIVE ORDER 10730

    ByPresident Dwight D. Eisenhower

    Ending segregation in Little Rock's Central High School

    Whereas on September 23, 1957, I issued Proclamation No. 3204 reading in part as follows:

    Whereas certain persons in the State of Arkansas, individually and in unlawful assemblages, combinations, and conspiracies, have willfully obstructed the enforcement of orders of the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Arkansas with respect to matters relating to enrollment and attendance at public schools, particularly at Central High School, located in Little Rock School District, Little Rock, Arkansas; and

    Whereas such willful obstruction of justice hinders the execution of the laws of that State and of the United States, and makes it impracticable to enforce such laws by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings; and

    Whereas such obstructions of justice constitutes a denial of the equal protection of the laws secured by the Constitution of the United States and impedes the course of justice under those laws;

    Now, therefore, I, Dwight D. Eisenhower, President of the United States, under and by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitutionand Statutes of the United States, including Chapter 15 of Title 10 of the United States Code, particularly sections 332, 333 and 334 thereof, do command all persons engaged in such obstruction of justice to cease and desist therefrom, and to disperse forthwith, and

    Whereas the command contained in that Proclamation has not been obeyed and willful obstruction of enforcement of said court orders still exists and threatens to continue:

    Now, therefore, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and Statutes of the United States, including Chapter 15 of Title 10 of the United States Code, particularly sections 332, 333 and 334 thereof, and section 301 of Title 3 of the United States Code, it is hereby ordered as follows:

    SEC. 1.I hereby authorize and direct the Secretary of Defense to order into the active military service of the United States as he may deem appropriate to carry out the purposes of this Order, any or all of the units of the National Guard of the United States and of the Air National Guard of the United States within the State of Arkansas to serve in the active military service of the United States for an indefinite period and until relieved by appropriate orders.

    SEC. 2.The Secretary of Defense is authorized and directed to take all appropriate steps to enforce any orders of the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Arkansas for the removal of obstruction of justice in the State of Arkansas with respect to matters relating to enrollment and attendance at public schools in the Little Rock School District, Little Rock, Arkansas. In carrying out the provisions of this
    section, the Secretary of Defense is authorized to use the units, and members thereof, ordered into the active military service of the United States pursuant to Section 1 of this Order.

    SEC. 3.In furtherance of the enforcement of the aforementioned orders of the United States District Court of the Eastern District of Arkansas, the Secretary of Defense is authorized to use such of the armed forces of the Untied States as he may deem necessary.

    SEC. 4.The Secretary of Defense is authorized to delegate to the Secretary of the Army or the Secretary of the Air Force, or both, any of the authority conferred upon him by this Order.
    Of course there are some cases of of reversal Supreme Court, or legislation contravening. But in the mean time....
    Last edited by DaveH; June 8th, 2008 at 08:10 PM. Reason: hit the key too soon
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    Executive Orders

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    He may only be able to tell Federal Departments and Agencies and their employees and contractors what to do. But "what they do" can change have an impact on individuals and States.

    You might want to look at EXECUTIVE ORDER 10730 for a look at how that can play out. (Not trying to open a can of worms on the content here. Just saying that the Executive Orders can have an impact of the lives of everyone -- for the good or the bad.)

    Of course there are some cases of of reversal Supreme Court, or legislation contravening. But in the mean time....
    Do keep in mind that this order didn't just come from thin air. It was issued as a necessary step to uphold a Supreme Court decision and maintain public order.

    Again, presidents aren't dictators.

    I hope too, that particular example won't in fact open a whole can of worms on this board. Brown v BOE is settled law now for 56 years, I think. And their ain't no going back even if a small number of folks (certainly not including myself) wish we could.
    _________________________________________________
    For those too young to have been alive at the time, or to remember,
    the EO the poster pointed to was perhaps the highlight of President Eisenhower's presidential career. His rather brave action did (and properly so) change our nation and everyone therein for the better.

    Ike may have been the best president in the entire post-WWII era, and he gets too little attention nowadays; mostly because that was a very long time ago.

    If nothing else, he warned us about,"the military industrial complex."
    We should have listened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Do keep in mind that this order didn't just come from thin air. It was issued as a necessary step to uphold a Supreme Court decision and maintain public order.

    Again, presidents aren't dictators.

    I hope too, that particular example won't in fact open a whole can of worms on this board. Brown v BOE is settled law now for 56 years, I think. And their ain't no going back even if a small number of folks (certainly not including myself) wish we could.
    _________________________________________________
    For those too young to have been alive at the time, or to remember,
    the EO the poster pointed to was perhaps the highlight of President Eisenhower's presidential career. His rather brave action did (and properly so) change our nation and everyone therein for the better.

    Ike may have been the best president in the entire post-WWII era, and he gets too little attention nowadays; mostly because that was a very long time ago.

    If nothing else, he warned us about,"the military industrial complex."
    We should have listened.
    +1 all the way around.

    I was just saying that in the "wrong" situation a lot of damage could be done quickly -- not unlike the Katrina gun confiscation fiasco.
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    The 2nd Amend. was put there just in case people put in the public trust get out of hand......then it's up to the PEOPLE to change things. Of course these Socialist minded officials don't want us to have guns.....remember Hitler, 1930's.....door to door confiscat...oh wait, Katrina ring a bell?
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    the only thing I worry about is that a dem wins and the house/senate are either split or in favor of the dems.

    A really bad AWB could come up and pass into law that makes the previous one look pretty tame.

    A lot probably also relies on the SCOTUS on Heller vs DC. and how widespread the implications are... However I highly doubt it will be very widespread unless the dems lose a lot of political power come November.
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    I don't think that gun control will be anywhere near the top of the future presidents list of things to do, regardless of who wins. I also don't think that congress will do anything regarding gun control in the next 4 years. There are much more pressing things on their agenda, like the soaring debt, medicare, social security, the Iraq fiasco, Iran, North Korea, the soon to be communist again Russia, immigration, energy cost, the economy in general, the list could go on, but guns probably won't be on it.

    As far as DCvHeller goes, depending on how the Supreme Court rules, and the scope of the ruling, that will have a big effect on the new President, Congress, but more importantly, local and state laws relating to weapons, or lack there of the ability to carry or maintain them.

    Of course this is all must my opinion, and we all know what opinions are worth.
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    Executive orders are in essence----unconstitutional.
    Yep...that dont keep them from happening though...
    or being acted upon...
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    I think that is a misunderstanding

    I think that is quite a misunderstanding. The President's job is defined in the Constitution and his duties include overseeing the Executive Functions of the government.

    An EO is nothing more than instructions from the boss (The Prez) to the folks who work for him. Your boss or his boss writes similar "memos" all the time.

    So, let's say the Prez decides (this actually is real life) that it would be a good idea that people who work for Uncle be tested for drug use before they are hired. Fair enough, at least in many peoples view.

    What does he do to implement this good idea?

    He issues (and this is a real example) an EO to an Agency to promulgate testing rules and regulations. The Agency publishes proposed rules in The Federal Register. The public gets a period of time to submit "public comments." The Agency considers these, responds, publishes again in THe Federal Register, and then the regulations become "the real deal," binding on all Federal Human resources folk to carry out.

    If someone thinks the regs are unlawful or unconstitutional, they are free to: a) go to court and get them overturned; b) petition their Congress Critters to pressure the Agency to change them.

    Back to the original point-- the words "executive order" might not appear in the text of The Constitution, but the authority is specifically given to the president to see that the laws are faithfully carried out-- and that part includes instructing Agencies on how to do their job.

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    This might be the least of our worries if he is elected.

    But...I think I'd like to see him try a few moves like this. So far none of his "supporters" see how far left he is (I know, too much kool-aid). Maybe a few concrete examples would help.

    He could/would lose lots of support right off the bat and would be a guaranteed loser is 2012.

    I know ---never underestimate the power of those that believe "the government" exists to pay their bills.

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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    I don't think that gun control will be anywhere near the top of the future presidents list of things to do, regardless of who wins. I also don't think that congress will do anything regarding gun control in the next 4 years. There are much more pressing things on their agenda, like the soaring debt, medicare, social security, the Iraq fiasco, Iran, North Korea, the soon to be communist again Russia, immigration, energy cost, the economy in general, the list could go on, but guns probably won't be on it.
    I (obviously) would agree that it shouldn't be. However... the politicians spend way too much time on stuff that they should have nothing to do with; stuff that is not remotely important. It delays their actually having to do real work and spend time on pressing problems that require unpopular solutions. Sad, really.
    eschew obfuscation

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