Florida's Gun Law Challenged-"Bring Your Gun to Work" law being heard in court:MERGED

[CharlieMike]

Florida's Gun Law Challenged

Soon, Floridians will be allowed to keep a gun in their cars while they're at work.
But that's only if federal court doesn't step in, which the Florida Retail Federation and the Florida Chamber of Commerce are asking it to do.
Christalyn Davis says Sheffield's Body Shop in Tallahassee has never had any problems in the six years she's worked there, but says knowing a co-worker could have a gun in their car makes her feel safer just in case danger does ever arise.
Davis said, "We open up early mornings, we're here late at night at times. For your safety, yes, you should carry a firearm and you'll always be prepared."
Governor Charlie Crist signed the bill into law that makes it legal for employees to keep a gun in their locked car at work as long as they have a concealed weapons permit.
Rick McAllister, the President/CEO of the Florida Retail Federation, said, "By the legislature passing a bill that says that you can't make a company policy or procedure that prevents people from bringing guns onto the property that you own, that certainly is an invasion of private property rights."
The Florida Retail Federation and the Florida Chamber of Commerce filed a lawsuit to challenge the constitutionality of the gun law.
RICK L3
"We believe that the court will find that it is unconstitutional."
The law is set to take effect July 1st. The Florida Retail Federation and the Florida Chamber of Commerce made a second filing asking federal court to push back that start date until the court can make a decision on whether the gun law is constitutional.
That hearing is set for Wednesday at 3:00 p.m.
Guns would still be off limits at schools, prisons, nuclear power plants, military facilities and buildings that store explosives.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[CharlieMike]

Sorry. I didn't notice the thread started by "David in FL": http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...-hit-poll.html

In my defense, the topic name isn't very descriptive.

[MitchellCT]

Private property rights don't need any more erosion.

We lost enough of that in the Kelo case.

As pro gun as I am, I still think laws which tell private individuals they are unable to control their property in the manner in which they see fit are a bad idea.

If you don't like the company's gun policy, work with the union to alter it, or find a new job. Either way, on private property, against action by private individuals, your second amendment rights don't apply as to the property owner's anti gun rules.

[NKMG19]

If my company can provide me armed security from my home to work and then back home again then I won't take my gun with me to work. I commute 70 miles per day and there is a great chance something can go wrong during my commute. So I choose to protect myself.

[Tally XD]

Private property rights don't need any more erosion.

We lost enough of that in the Kelo case.

As pro gun as I am, I still think laws which tell private individuals they are unable to control their property in the manner in which they see fit are a bad idea.

If you don't like the company's gun policy, work with the union to alter it, or find a new job. Either way, on private property, against action by private individuals, your second amendment rights don't apply as to the property owner's anti gun rules.

Does having total control of private property have any effect on criminals bringing guns onto private property? Also, as far as I am concerned, my vehicle is still MY property even if it is sitting on someone elses.

[MattInFla]

As pro gun as I am, I still think laws which tell private individuals they are unable to control their property in the manner in which they see fit are a bad idea.

Then shouldn't you support the right of a vehicle owner to lawfully keep whatever they please in their own private property?

Matt

[BAC]

Does having total control of private property have any effect on criminals bringing guns onto private property? Also, as far as I am concerned, my vehicle is still MY property even if it is sitting on someone elses.

That is going to be a very important point, because it will set precedent for any future pushes in either direction. Is my property not my property, either? If so, is lawfully-owned property kept on or about my person not still my property? This can go many directions, many of them good, some of them not. Roll up your sleeves, this one could be big for Florida.

Right now it's not illegal, per se, to bring a gun onto private property, but if you're told to leave and don't it's trespassing; the sign is just to let folks know that if they see you with one, they'll probably do something about you being there. If you work for a place and carry a gun and the employers don't like it much, or don't like you much, you can be fired. Legally you were alright, but by company policy you might not be.

I'm gonna see if I can find the lawyers speaking in defense of the law. I do like the directions this law is taking Florida law (although we still should have invoked Article 1, Section 8 of our own Constitution, not the 2nd-Amendment of the U.S. Constitution), and would be quite willing to defend it.


-B

[ctr]

Private property rights don't need any more erosion.

We lost enough of that in the Kelo case.

As pro gun as I am, I still think laws which tell private individuals they are unable to control their property in the manner in which they see fit are a bad idea.

If you don't like the company's gun policy, work with the union to alter it, or find a new job. Either way, on private property, against action by private individuals, your second amendment rights don't apply as to the property owner's anti gun rules.

No way. Do I give up my First Amendment rights when I step on your property? How about my Fith Amendment rights, are they gone too, just because I'm on someone else's property? Get real.

[FLSquirrelHunter]

Private property rights don't need any more erosion.

Agreed, but what does that have to do with (concealed) carry? No one is shooting my place. My property and its value is unaffected by the presence or absence of personal defense weapons. Employees are not my property; they choose whether or not to carry. (By the way, so do the people who shop or intend to rob.)

If you don't like the company's gun policy, work with the union to alter it, or find a new job.

When did the RKBA become a negotiable part of a labor agreement? A "right" is inalienable.

Either way, on private property, against action by private individuals, your second amendment rights don't apply as to the property owner's anti gun rules.

The US Constitution declared the RKBA in 1791. The right of a person to have property was not formally recognized therein until (after the abolition of slavery) in 1868. The context does not seem to apply to real property, but IANAL.

and ...

in Florida, we today have a situation (unchanged by the new law) which makes a retail owner able to prohibit carry by employees but not by customers. How does that make sense?

[Beretta1526]

No way. Do I give up my First Amendment rights when I step on your property? How about my Fith Amendment rights, are they gone too, just because I'm on someone else's property?

EXCELLENT point.

...and if I am to give up this right to carry when I enter an employer's property, do I then subject myself to a search of my person?

My biggest thing is that leaves me in a situation where I'm not able to protect myself. I may be barred from bringing my carry onto company property, but what about those people that come onto that property that are not employees. THEY are not barred from carrying on that property.

.

[falcon1]

By CATHERINE DOLINSKI

The Tampa Tribune

Published: June 26, 2008

Updated:

TALLAHASSEE - A federal judge declined on Wednesday to stop Florida's new guns-at-work law from taking effect on Tuesday.

The law, which Gov. Charlie Crist signed in April, will allow employees possessing concealed-weapons permits to keep guns in their vehicles while parked on their employer's premises. Not only will employers not be able to stop them, they won't be able to ask whether an employee has a gun in his or her car, either.

Florida's fight over guns at work, which began in the Legislature in 2005, has pitted conservative factions against one another. The Florida Chamber of Commerce, arguing that the law violates property owners' rights, asked for an injunction in federal court in Tallahassee on Wednesday. On the other side: the National Rifle Association and the state, arguing that the issue is a matter of an individual's right to bear arms.


See remainder of story here:
Judge Won't Stop Guns-At-Work Law

Note this judge reached this decision yesterday, before the decision was announced by SCOTUS today. Of course, he has not yet reached a final decision, but he has refused to grant an injunction to stay its implementation. I suspect DC v. Heller may inform his thinking in the matter.

Congratulations, Florida!! It sounds good for you!

[Beretta1526]

Congratulations, Florida!! It sounds good for you!

Everyone golf clap.

.

[Hopyard]

By CATHERINE DOLINSKI

The Tampa Tribune

Published: June 26, 2008

Updated:

TALLAHASSEE - A federal judge declined on Wednesday to stop Florida's new guns-at-work law from taking effect on Tuesday.

The law, which Gov. Charlie Crist signed in April, will allow employees possessing concealed-weapons permits to keep guns in their vehicles while parked on their employer's premises. Not only will employers not be able to stop them, they won't be able to ask whether an employee has a gun in his or her car, either.

Florida's fight over guns at work, which began in the Legislature in 2005, has pitted conservative factions against one another. The Florida Chamber of Commerce, arguing that the law violates property owners' rights, asked for an injunction in federal court in Tallahassee on Wednesday. On the other side: the National Rifle Association and the state, arguing that the issue is a matter of an individual's right to bear arms.


See remainder of story here:
Judge Won't Stop Guns-At-Work Law

Note this judge reached this decision yesterday, before the decision was announced by SCOTUS today. Of course, he has not yet reached a final decision, but he has refused to grant an injunction to stay its implementation. I suspect DC v. Heller may inform his thinking in the matter.

Congratulations, Florida!! It sounds good for you!

Because Federal courts having jurisdiction over Oklahoma ruled against such a law, and it seems like courts in FL ruled in favor, this has the potential to go to the SC eventually to sort out the discrepancy across the country.

[JimThomas]

Good News...

Law takes effect today that prohibits employers from barring guns in their packing lots. (in a gun owner's car)

Bad News...

It's being challenged by the Florida Retail Federation and the Florida Chamber of Commerce. The federal judge hearing the challenge said it "is so badly written it's "stupid"" or something like that. The articles I've seen don't have a direct quote, but do have a nice biased headline.

Federal judge calls new Florida gun law 'stupid' - 06/25/2008 - MiamiHerald.com

[GHFLRLTD]

Disney says the following. Does anybody know the statute Micky is refering to?

----- Original Message -----

From: WDW NewsRoom

To: #WDW X Corporate Executive Cast - Florida; #WDW X Walt Disney Parks and Resorts Vice Presidents; #WDW X Walt Disney Parks and ResortsDirectors; #WDW X Walt Disney Parks and Resorts General Managers

Sent: Fri Jun 27 XXXXXXX 2008

Subject: Florida's Guns-At-Work Legislation



Below is a memo regarding the Florida Guns-at-Work law, effective July 1, 2008. Please share verbally with your teams, as appropriate.

************************************************** ******************************************



To: Florida-site Executives Date: June 27, 2008
From: Shannon McAleavey,
Senior Vice President Public Affairs
Subject: Florida's Guns-at-Work Legislation



__________________________________________________ ___________________



On July 1, a new Florida law will go into effect that will allow employees with a conceal-and-carry permit to have a weapon in their vehicle at their place of employment. This law does not apply to Walt Disney World Co. owned and leased properties due to an exemption. This includes all theme parks, resorts, theme park and resort parking lots, Cast Member parking lots, administrative offices across the Walt Disney World(r) Resort, Downtown Disney(r), Disney's Wide World of Sports Complex, hotels on Hotel Plaza Boulevard, Celebration and the Disney Reservation Centers (Orlando and Tampa).

However, the law will apply to property owned by Reedy Creek Improvement District, Disney's Vero Beach Resort, the Disney Cruise Line Crew Member parking lot, the La Quinta warehouse on Orange Blossom Trail and Disney-owned liquidation stores off property. Because this is a Florida law, it also does not apply to Disney's Hilton Head Island Resort. Cast Members will continue to be prohibited from removing a weapon from their vehicle while at work. All Cast Members must comply with the gun policies in effect at the location they are visiting, regardless of where they work. For example, Disney's Vero Beach Cast Members must comply with the gun policies at a Walt Disney World Co. theme park when visiting that location.

Walt Disney World Co. continues to maintain a zero tolerance policy for guns and workplace violence. Possession of dangerous or unauthorized materials such as explosives, firearms, ammunition, weapons or other similar items on Walt Disney World Co. owned or leased property is grounds for termination (as outlined in the Employee Policy Manual).

A lawsuit filed by the Florida Chamber of Commerce and Florida Retail Federation to repeal the law is under review, and we are hopeful it will be overturned by mid-July. We support the ongoing efforts of the Florida Chamber of Commerce and the Florida Retail Federation to challenge the legislation. The safety of our Cast and Guests is our top priority.

Please encourage your teams to practice safe behaviors at any location. In an emergency, Cast Members should dial 911. If a gun is seen or suspected to be at any location, Cast Members should immediately contact their local Human Resources representative or Walt Disney World Security at x1990 or 407-560-1990.

Thanks for your support in verbally sharing this information with your teams. I will update you when a final ruling is made in the lawsuit.

It is not indicated in the Section 790.06 (12)

(12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05; any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station; any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse; any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom; any polling place; any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district; any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof; any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms; any school administration building; any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose; any elementary or secondary school facility; any career center; any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile; inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. Any person who willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

Let's send some emails to Ms. McAleavey for clarification....

shannon.k.mcaleavey@disney.com