NO Guns stores in DC but LOOK WHO HAS A LICENSE!!!!

This is a discussion on NO Guns stores in DC but LOOK WHO HAS A LICENSE!!!! within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I think I'm going to send him a post card asking if he does transfers.........Something along the lines of: J. A. Sugarman 1370 Rhode Island ...

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Thread: NO Guns stores in DC but LOOK WHO HAS A LICENSE!!!!

  1. #16
    VIP Member
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    I think I'm going to send him a post card asking if he does transfers.........Something along the lines of:

    J. A. Sugarman
    1370 Rhode Island Ave. NW #1014
    Washington DC 20036

    Dear Mr Sugarman,

    I have a relative in DC who needs a handgun to protect themselves at home. In light of the recent Heller v DC decision, I thought this would be a good time to gift him a handgun for the sake of his children.

    I searched the BATFEs FFL holder list & see you are listed as having one & as luck would have it, you are also located in DC.

    Could you tell me what your transfer fee is? Most dealers around here charge $25-$50 dollars. I know that with the recent over turning of the DC gun ban, you will probably be busy.

    I look forward to your reply. Stay safe & carry always!

    Sincerely,

    C Green
    Go Away Farm
    Fork Union, Va.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

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  3. #17
    New Member Array flccnp's Avatar
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    Just for follow up on the address shown in the screen snapshot:
    Violence Policy Center - Washington DC - Social Service Organizations - (202) 822-8200 - Open List

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    I'm calling the VPC right now...

    Update:

    It took a few steps to locate his extension (dial '567' at the employee extension listing option then press pound) but I hit his VM.
    I left him a brief message with my full name and indicated cell phone number, stating that I am inquiring about his firearms transfer fee toward a revolver as per his listing at the BATF website stating he is an FFL.
    I stated that I'm in meetings today and to leave a VM if I do not answer and that I will return his call ASAP.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  5. #19
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    I'm getting giddy with excitement, I cant wait to follow the outcome. Brilliant work Jang, MrReynolds and GoAwayFarm.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  6. #20
    Member Array Skysoldier's Avatar
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    Damn you guys are GREAT!! keep sticking it to them

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array mrreynolds's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I'm getting giddy with excitement, I cant wait to follow the outcome. Brilliant work Jang, MrReynolds and GoAwayFarm.
    Happy to be a part of the team.

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Honestly I do not expect to ever hear back from Mr. Sugarmann.

    Clearly he is not a practicing FFL dealer.
    As such his only play is to not return my call to which he can then later if called on it claim ignorance. And not be on record that he is in fact and truth not a practicing FFL.
    These people aren't dumb, on the whole. My statement inquiring about his FFL calling out of the blue, right around the time of DCvHeller, is not going to be taken by him to be happenstance. Further my stated inquiry about transfer of a revolver in specific should also be a clue.

    Again I do not expect a return call from him.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array BigEFan's Avatar
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    I am chuckling so much that I wonder if this thread belongs in the humor section. KEEP IT UP GUYS!
    Lex et Libertas — Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus, et Fidelis!

    "Not only do the people who put their lives on the line to protect the rest of us deserve better, we all deserve better than to have our own security undermined by those who undermine law enforcement." -Thomas Sowell

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    I have just used the information in this post to formally inquire about transferring a firearm as a gift for my brother-in-law who works and lives in old town.

    we will see what he responds with.
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Guys no offense to harp on the parade that needs to be going to Pennsylvania avenue. But since your not a resident all he has to ask you is for a copy of your DC drivers license. You have to be in DC to but a gun from him. I'm sure he doesn't have a stock of guns. Because before the Heller decision there where absolutly NO Handguns in the District!!! Get it right! :)
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

  12. #26
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    Ah, but Rob, I want to transfer a gun to my girlfriend who does live in D.C. That's a pretty straight forward test case. And if he is not in the business of selling guns, then BATFE should yank his license.
    “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia

    SIG: P220R SS Elite SAO, P220R SAO, P220R Carry, P226R Navy, P226, P239/.40S&W, P2022/.40S&W; GSR 5", P6.

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array mrreynolds's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Did you realize that you have certified to the government that your FFL is a "principal source of livelihood and profit?" No? Try reading:

    18 USC Sec. 921 01/02/2006

    -EXPCITE-
    TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
    PART I - CRIMES
    CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS

    -HEAD-
    Sec. 921. Definitions

    -STATUTE-

    (11) The term "dealer" means

    • (A) any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail,

    • (B)any person engaged in the business of repairing firearms or of making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms, or

    • (C) any person who is a pawnbroker. The term "licensed dealer" means any dealer who is licensed under the provisions of this chapter.


    (21) The term "engaged in the business" means -

    • (A) as applied to a manufacturer of firearms, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms manufactured;


    • (B) as applied to a manufacturer of ammunition, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition manufactured;


    • (C) as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section 921(a)(11)(A), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms;

    • (D) as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section 921(a)(11)(B), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to engaging in such activity as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional repairs of firearms, or who occasionally fits special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms;

    • (E) as applied to an importer of firearms, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to importing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms imported; and

    • (F) as applied to an importer of ammunition, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to importing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition imported.


    (22) The term "with the principal objective of livelihood and profit" means that the intent underlying the sale or disposition of firearms is predominantly one of obtaining livelihood and pecuniary gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liquidating a personal firearms collection: Provided, That proof of profit shall not be required as to a person who engages in the regular and repetitive purchase and disposition of firearms for criminal purposes or terrorism. For purposes of this paragraph, the term "terrorism" means activity, directed against United States persons, which -
    • (A) is committed by an individual who is not a national or permanent resident alien of the United States;


    • (B) involves violent acts or acts dangerous to human life which would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States; and

    • (C) is intended -
    • (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
    • (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
    • (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by assassination or kidnapping.


    US CODE 99-308 Chapter 44, Section 921.11, 21 and 22

    § 478.58 State or other law.

    A license issued under this part confers no right or privilege to conduct business or activity contrary to State or other law. The holder of such a license is not by reason of the rights and privileges granted by that license immune from punishment for operating a firearm or ammunition business or activity in violation of the provisions of any State or other law. Similarly, compliance with the provisions of any State or other law affords no immunity under Federal law or regulations.

    § 478.58 State or other law


    ARTICLE

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kazzaerexys View Post
    Ah, but Rob, I want to transfer a gun to my girlfriend who does live in D.C. That's a pretty straight forward test case. And if he is not in the business of selling guns, then BATFE should yank his license.
    Yep...! ^^

    That is _exactly_ the scenario I had in mind if he had answered and/or by chance does return my call.
    I do not have to be a DC resident and I am not inquiring to make any purchase. He's an FFL which is a licensed transfer point, not just a dealer/seller. Half my family lives in DC never mind many of my friends.
    I am willing to prove a point and setup transfer of one of my own personal firearms to that of a family member or friend, who is a DC resident, via Mr. Schumann if he does return my call and make like he'd want to take steps forward for real. Hell I'd shoulder the cost too, shipping and FFL fees 100%.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array deadeye72's Avatar
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    My question is, if they do not have any FFL dealers in DC, how did the people purchase the long guns they were allowed to own?
    Glock 27
    BENELLI NOVA

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadeye72 View Post
    My question is, if they do not have any FFL dealers in DC, how did the people purchase the long guns they were allowed to own?
    Either move there with as much or inherit them from a relative who was a resident back when there were gun shops in DC before the first ban in '72 or as many have done they purchased them illegally in MD or VA and have been sitting on them for years in their home as an 'Open Only In Case of Emergency' type escape tool.
    The DC po-po have a 30 minute to 3 day response time which leaves one more than enough time to 'dispose' of said longgun (or handgun) upon use prior to Johnny Law showing up to ask questions and take names. In D.C. due to law and circumstance firearms are largely disposable and commodity items to which most all possessors are and have long been criminalized regardless of intent.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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