Post Office Again - Page 2

Post Office Again

This is a discussion on Post Office Again within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by 762 true, but a mag is still not a deadly weapon. only when it is inserted inside the gun, and chambered is ...

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Thread: Post Office Again

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 762 View Post
    true, but a mag is still not a deadly weapon. only when it is inserted inside the gun, and chambered is it. When the 2 are apart, they are nothing more then paper weights.

    Just playing devils advocate here.
    Yes but he wasn't fired for the mag, He was fired for the gun, in his car, on federal property. That's the key element here.
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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Being honest i will bet that i have not been in a post office two times in the last year . I never thought to disarm to run in for a shipment ect.. Of course in this small town the postmaster would want to " see my pistol " if i were noticed there and not to " secure " a semi federal facility, rather to see if it was something he would want to trade for since he and his kids hunt on our ground pretty much year round depending on what is in season lol .
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  3. #18
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matiki View Post
    This thread hasn't had even faintest hint of controversy yet. What is going on around here did everyone crawl under a rock?

    Yup, I placed the call to the "authority" here who published the book saying USPO AOK w/permit while on business (no evil intent). He never got back to me and I haven't had time to chase him down. [This was during a prior thread with a very heated discussion about CUSTOMERS CCW'g in the USPO.]

    So in my mind this is an "up in the air" thing and I don't claim any expertise.

  4. #19
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 762 View Post
    true, but a mag is still not a deadly weapon. only when it is inserted inside the gun, and chambered is it. When the 2 are apart, they are nothing more then paper weights.
    Alas, I think that you will find that not to be the case in any state (like Maryland) that has a strict transportation requirement. They make no distinction between a loaded magazine, an unloaded gun, or a loaded gun; they are all 'weapons' according to statute.

    Stupid, yes, but not limited to just this case. Anybody here who works at a federal facility, I bet you will find ammunition of any sort, whether in a magazine/clip/speedloader or not, as a prohibited item.
    “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia

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  5. #20
    Senior Member Array Shizzlemah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    He was wrong to use Heller as a defense. If he had any brains, he'd have pressed the lawful purpose exemption backed with the "shall not abrogate" clause in the CFR, thus the USC would remain supreme and sub (d)(3) would apply. Case dismissed with prejudice.
    +1 here

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array Rob P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LenS View Post
    Yup, I placed the call to the "authority" here who published the book saying USPO AOK w/permit while on business (no evil intent). He never got back to me and I haven't had time to chase him down. [This was during a prior thread with a very heated discussion about CUSTOMERS CCW'g in the USPO.]

    So in my mind this is an "up in the air" thing and I don't claim any expertise.
    I believe that the issue here is what "official business" means. I also believe that I can offer a clarification on that.

    As we (or most of us) know, you can mail a rifle via USPS. IF, you can mail a rifle then you can carry a gun in a post office. However, there is a prohibition against guns in post offices. So, the question is how to resolve the conflict.

    "Official business" would be the act of carrying the firearm into the PO for the purposes of mailing the firearm. This is because the "official business" of the PO is to mail things. "Official business" doesn't include you going to the PO to collect your regular mail since that occurs AFTER the "official business" has been concluded (the mail was delivered). Going to the PO to mail something is also not "official business" unless the item to be mailed is a firearm. Carrying a firearm while going to the PO to mail a letter would not be "official business" involving a firearm.

    Picking up a firearm at the PO would be "official business" because it directly involves the firearm and you are required to go to the PO to collect it. This is different from collecting general mail because you aren't "required" to go to the PO to get that even in a PO box since the choice was yours whereas with a firearm, there is no choice - the firearm must be collected at the PO.

    So, simply stated, the "official business" must directly involve the firearm. Otherwise, carrying a firearm in a PO is prohibited.

    At least that's MY take on it.

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    He was wrong to use Heller as a defense. If he had any brains, he'd have pressed the lawful purpose exemption backed with the "shall not abrogate" clause in the CFR, thus the USC would remain supreme and sub (d)(3) would apply. Case dismissed with prejudice.
    Ya. What he said.

    So why did he consent to letting his car be searched anyways?
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  8. #23
    Senior Member Array Shizzlemah's Avatar
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    As we (or most of us) know, you can mail a rifle via USPS. IF, you can mail a rifle then you can carry a gun in a post office. However, there is a prohibition against guns in post offices. So, the question is how to resolve the conflict.

    "Official business" would be the act of carrying the firearm into the PO for the purposes of mailing the firearm. This is because the "official business" of the PO is to mail things. "Official business" doesn't include you going to the PO to collect your regular mail since that occurs AFTER the "official business" has been concluded (the mail was delivered). Going to the PO to mail something is also not "official business" unless the item to be mailed is a firearm. Carrying a firearm while going to the PO to mail a letter would not be "official business" involving a firearm.
    What criteria do you base your clarification on?

    It is not a valid explanation to say it is okay under the guise of mailing a handgun. It is legal to mail long guns, but it is never allowed to mail a handgun. That argument carries no merit - but, let's play that out.

    Please explain which of the following is "official business":
    If I go to the post office to mail a letter ?
    to buy a stamp?
    to cash a money order?
    to get mail from my PO box?
    to get mail from my PO box when we have no local/household mail service?

    What if I have a stamp on my pistol?

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Licensed dealers and manufacturers can mail handguns. I do it all the time.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  10. #25
    Senior Member Array Shizzlemah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    Licensed dealers and manufacturers can mail handguns. I do it all the time.
    Mail as in USPS, not talking UPS Fedex or DHL.

    (B7) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?[Back]

    from ATF Online - Firearms FAQs
    A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

    Am I reading that wrong?

    Or to play devil's advocate here - if I have a FFL and a stamp on my gun, is that "official"

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Yes, dealers and manufacturers can use USPS mail to ship handguns, non-FFLs cannot use USPS for handguns.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array Rob P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shizzlemah View Post
    What criteria do you base your clarification on?

    It is not a valid explanation to say it is okay under the guise of mailing a handgun. It is legal to mail long guns, but it is never allowed to mail a handgun. That argument carries no merit - but, let's play that out.

    Please explain which of the following is "official business":
    If I go to the post office to mail a letter ?
    to buy a stamp?
    to cash a money order?
    to get mail from my PO box?
    to get mail from my PO box when we have no local/household mail service?

    What if I have a stamp on my pistol?
    If you re-read my post carefully this time you'll see that I clearly say that firearms are allowed in the PO IF they are the subject of the "official business." This is a postal regulation regarding the mailing of rifles. Otherwise you'd get busted if you brought a rifle to the PO to mail it.

    Thus, when you mail or pick up a firearm at the PO, the firearm is the purpose of your business there and is exempt from the "no firearms" policy.

    If, OTOH, you're just there to mail letters or buy stamps then the firearm is NOT the subject of the visit and is not allowed.

    How much simplier than that could it get?

  13. #28
    Senior Member Array Shizzlemah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob P. View Post
    If you re-read my post carefully this time you'll see that I clearly say that firearms are allowed in the PO IF they are the subject of the "official business." This is a postal regulation regarding the mailing of rifles. Otherwise you'd get busted if you brought a rifle to the PO to mail it.

    Thus, when you mail or pick up a firearm at the PO, the firearm is the purpose of your business there and is exempt from the "no firearms" policy.

    If, OTOH, you're just there to mail letters or buy stamps then the firearm is NOT the subject of the visit and is not allowed.

    How much simplier than that could it get?
    The rule says "on official business", and it does not say "for the express purpose of shipping or receiving the firearm".

    Is there any distinction anywhere that supports the firearm must be the reason for the visit?

    If I am at the post office to mail my taxes or get my junk mail, it's still official business.

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