With guns, no second chances (Idiot Editor)

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Thread: With guns, no second chances (Idiot Editor)

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    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    With guns, no second chances (Idiot Editor)

    With guns, no second chances | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

    The Virginian-Pilot
    July 12, 2008

    Did he really just take a swing at me?

    It was 30 years ago, spring 1978, and I was leaving the indoor basketball courts at the University of Maryland in suburban D.C. A guy from the other team - which had lost when I'd sunk the winning hoop - approached me as I was leaving the gym.

    "You undercut me!" he shouted. "Let's go!" he added, challenging me to a fight.

    Good thing it was 1978, and not 2008. Otherwise, my opponent might have had a gun.

    That's one of the overwhelming differences between an earlier generation and today's. Before, taunts, threats and fistfights were the worst thing young men faced when they had beefs on the court, on the street, in a club. Nowadays, though, you never know who's packing a gun - or if they're looking to use it.

    Confrontations three decades ago never seemed to amount to much. Sore jaws, puffy eyes or wounded feelings were the limit. Not death.

    Back then, you could cool off. You still can today, too, but you might be in a holding cell, facing a murder charge and the grieving, revenge-seeking relatives of your victim.

    It was the reality of gun violence - and its results - that drew hundreds of people to South Norfolk on Thursday night. Called by top Chesapeake city officials, the meeting at Bethany Baptist Church sought solutions to the current problems of guns, drugs and gangs.

    The meeting occurred after two shooting deaths on the same day last week in Chesapeake, within a few miles of each other. At 2:30 a.m. July 1, Lonnie Andrews Jr., 18, was killed near the home where he grew up. Around 1 p.m., Dontrell Whitehurst, 26, was killed.

    The killing of Andrews has received more attention because of his age and promising future. Popular with classmates, the recent Oscar Smith High School graduate was headed to Virginia State University on a football scholarship. A 17-year-old male, an Oscar Smith student, has been charged in Andrews' slaying.

    Here's where I make all the gun rights people crazy: Despite the few details that have emerged about the case, there's every reason to think that - minus the gun - Lonnie Andrews would be alive today.

    ("But guns don't kill people; people kill people!" Yeah, but in most cases, the people have guns.)

    Chesapeake police have said little so far about the case. They acknowledge that some type of altercation preceded Andrews' death, but it's unclear who it was between, what it was about, and whether that was the motive for the shooting. Andrews had been at a dance at Janelle's Center for the Youth about a half hour before he was shot. Police declined to comment on the gun used in the killing, or whether it had been recovered.

    ("Criminals won't obey the law, and everybody else will be sitting ducks without their own guns!" activists say. But was the 17-year-old suspect a "criminal" before this incident? Did easy access to a gun lead to a series of events that had only one outcome?)

    I don't blame it all on the guns. If we valued life, if we loved each other, if we had proper guidance in the home, we wouldn't so easily end the lives of others. So many social ills are catalysts for violence. But the presence of guns, especially easy-to-tote handguns, makes the situation infinitely worse.

    Thirty years ago, walking off a basketball court, I got punched in the face. Thankfully, he didn't have a gun. Thankfully, I didn't have one, either.

    Roger Chesley is associate editor of The Virginian-Pilot's editorial page. Reach him at (757) 446-2329 or at roger. chesley@pilotonline.com.

    Only four replies, but he's batting zero so far. Wanna beat up on him too? Click the link.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Good thing it was 1978, and not 2008. Otherwise, my opponent might have had a gun.
    This guy must think that guns weren't invented until some time after 1978.

    I think it likely that the collapse of a society is presaged by polite manners being replaced with rudeness and other "in your face" behavior, which does agree with one of his themes.

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    ("Criminals won't obey the law, and everybody else will be sitting ducks without their own guns!" activists say. But was the 17-year-old suspect a "criminal" before this incident? Did easy access to a gun lead to a series of events that had only one outcome?)
    Well if he would have done his homework he would have known the answer. Per Virginia State Law:

    18.2-308.7. Possession or transportation of certain firearms by persons under the age of 18; penalty.

    It shall be unlawful for any person under 18 years of age to knowingly and intentionally possess or transport a handgun or assault firearm anywhere in the Commonwealth. For the purposes of this section, "handgun" means any pistol or revolver or other firearm originally designed, made and intended to fire single or multiple projectiles by means of an explosion of a combustible material from one or more barrels when held in one hand and "assault firearm" means any (i) semi-automatic centerfire rifle or pistol which expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock or (ii) shotgun with a magazine which will hold more than seven rounds of the longest ammunition for which it is chambered.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

    USAF Retired
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    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
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    Anyone out at 2:30 AM shouldn't be surprised if they run into trouble.
    An armed populace are called citizens.
    An unarmed populace are called subjects.

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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Back when I was a kid it seemed there was a gun leaned up in the corner of atleast one room of all my friends houses. My father took me up to the local Western Auto store so I could pick out my first revolver when I was in the 6th grade. I remember riding my bike to the stoe once a month so I could make the payments on it with my paper route money.

    I do believe that back then most of us kids were better trained and much safer with firearms than most the adults i see out shooting today. We knew that they were not toys.

    Back in those days it was common for all of us kids to walk through town wearing or carrying our guns on the way to the river outside of town. Maybe the problem nowdays is lack of training by indifferent parents more so than gun access?

    And before you say it. Times were not different!! the people back then were different though, thats for sure.

    Michael

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    Wow, I've been involved in my fair share of fistfights and worked as a bouncer through college, never had a firearm enter into any of them (maybe I was just lucky).

    I guess he missed the part of the anti-gun agenda classes in which everything must be referred to as the "Wild West", which happened in the late 1800's.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    The author's correct. With attackers that have no compunction about killing, raping or maiming, often using knives or guns, there are often no second chances. That's the whole point of the exercise.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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    Senior Member Array press1280's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyeLCPL View Post
    Wow, I've been involved in my fair share of fistfights and worked as a bouncer through college, never had a firearm enter into any of them (maybe I was just lucky).

    I guess he missed the part of the anti-gun agenda classes in which everything must be referred to as the "Wild West", which happened in the late 1800's.
    This guy thinks everyone's going to run out,get a gun and snap if someone insults them.
    This "Wild West," theory is total crap, the gang bangers are the only ones involved with anything close to that. And by the way they don't just pop into a gun store and buy a gun.
    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
    Nunn v. State GA 1848

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    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Back when I was a kid it seemed there was a gun leaned up in the corner of atleast one room of all my friends houses. My father took me up to the local Western Auto store so I could pick out my first revolver when I was in the 6th grade. I remember riding my bike to the stoe once a month so I could make the payments on it with my paper route money.

    I do believe that back then most of us kids were better trained and much safer with firearms than most the adults i see out shooting today. We knew that they were not toys.

    Back in those days it was common for all of us kids to walk through town wearing or carrying our guns on the way to the river outside of town. Maybe the problem nowdays is lack of training by indifferent parents more so than gun access?

    And before you say it. Times were not different!! the people back then were different though, thats for sure.

    Michael
    +1 to everything you said.

    I got my first training, the NRA Hunter's Safety course when I was 11. Our town instituted the program. Every year, the 6th grade class got to take the course and the town picked up the tab (the town also picked up the tab for Red Cross swimming lessons to).

    After I demonstrated to my dad that I was safe with guns, he let me get as many guns as my paper route, & lawn mowing jobs would allow.

    Wasn't it great growing up in a small town back in the '50s?
    An armed populace are called citizens.
    An unarmed populace are called subjects.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by press1280 View Post
    This guy thinks everyone's going to run out,get a gun and snap if someone insults them.
    This "Wild West," theory is total crap ...
    Yup. It will get wilder, here and there, if carrying is simpler or even removed from the radar altogether. It will certainly flush out a few more of the felons in the crowd, sure. However, it will NOT be the upstanding citizens doing the threatening, robbing, bludgeoning, murders. They'll simply be more empowered to say "no." As it should be.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    Member Array biasedbulldog's Avatar
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    Back then, you could cool off. You still can today, too, but you might be in a holding cell, facing a murder charge and the grieving, revenge-seeking relatives of your victim.
    I love how he uses "you," as if each law-abiding citizen is just inches and a bad day away from gunning down the neighborhood. What an idiot.
    "War necessarily brings with it some virtues, and great and heroic virtues too. What horrid creatures we men are, that we cannot be virtuous without murdering one another?" -John Adams

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    Member Array Sharp's Avatar
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    Confrontations three decades ago never seemed to amount to much. Sore jaws, puffy eyes or wounded feelings were the limit. Not death.
    Since when are blows to the face not considered deadly force?

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    Senior Member Array Sergeant Mac's Avatar
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    Two thoughts here:

    1. A target's-eye view of a 230-gr HP at the far end of the barrel provides a sort of "cooling-off period" all its own.

    2. What sort of carry solution is there, anyway, for use while PLAYING BASKETBALL?!?

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