Hollow victory??

This is a discussion on Hollow victory?? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; From NRA-ILA. Oh my - is my cynicism running riot or what? I mean, great for TX to expand reciprocity but hey - NJ???, MD???, ...

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Thread: Hollow victory??

  1. #1
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    Hollow victory??

    From NRA-ILA. Oh my - is my cynicism running riot or what?

    I mean, great for TX to expand reciprocity but hey - NJ???, MD???, CA????, and to lesser extent MA???. I expect the total number of CCW's from those can't exceed even into 4 figures!!

    I mean come on - how many guys from these are gonna be sayin' whoopdedo? yep - definite attack of cynicism

    Five States' Concealed Handgun License Holders Qualify for Recognition by Texas!

    Attorney General Greg Abbott (R) has determined that the following five states Concealed Handgun License (CHLs) holders qualify for recognition by Texas: California, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, and Washington.


    Read More: http://www.nraila.org/CurrentLegisla...d.aspx?ID=1820
    Chris - P95
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    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    to bad they didn't go all the way and include all states, then they would have sent a real message.

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    I'd be REALLY surprised if Maryland returned the favor!

    If it was a mutual thing I'd have to check and see if Texas has non-resident permits, it's the only way I'd be able to carry in Maryland.
    Rick

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    Where I'm from a permit from ANY state is reconized...whether it has a communist form of government or not. We arent about to let a few antigun governors in some antigun states deny someone the right to self defense here in this state because they were too sorry to sign an agreement.

    If you've jumped through the hoops to get a pemit from your state, I'm not going to let the minor details like official "repriciprocity" get in the way.As far as Im concerned, you're good to go. Most cops that I know of here feel the same way.

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    Interesting, the only "shall issue" state on the list is Washington. I wonder if the Texas AG knows that Washington doesn't recognize Texas' CHLs.

    Obvously not true reciprocity.


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    Senior Member Array A1C Lickey's Avatar
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    Maybe it's just me, but any gain, no matter how small, is still a gain. And it's setting precedence for even more reciprocity. Or am I missing something here?

    A1C Lickey

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    I think sometimes we get too caught up talking about the 2nd ammendment and our constitutional "right" to bear arms and forget that owning guns is by no means a right. A right cannot be taken away, which makes owning a gun a privilage, not a right. And depending on what state you live in that privilage can be taken away very easily.

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    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns
    Where I'm from a permit from ANY state is reconized...whether it has a communist form of government or not. We arent about to let a few antigun governors in some antigun states deny someone the right to self defense here in this state because they were too sorry to sign an agreement.

    If you've jumped through the hoops to get a pemit from your state, I'm not going to let the minor details like official "repriciprocity" get in the way.As far as Im concerned, you're good to go. Most cops that I know of here feel the same way.
    My state of residence works the same way (Michigan). The only caveat, Michigan doesn't recognize non-resident permits.

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    Actually I think if I were one of the lucky ones to have a permit in one of the restrictive states I would be doing the happy dance that more states recognize my permit. Since the more restrictive issue states don't typically grant reciprocity to other states it is unlikely their permits are recognized elsewhere.

    Missouri recognizes any permits also including non-resident. I have carried in Michigan and I believe they were one of the first any resident permit states. There are now more of course.

    Of course there is not true reciprocity yet. Some states will only recognize states that recognize theirs. Some states won't recognize another state's permit if the training requirements don't meet or exceed their requirements. I know that there is a whole lobbying effort in getting more reciprocity between states. Aside from getting shall issue passed in a state this is sometimes the next biggest fight.

    -Scott-

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott
    Missouri recognizes any permits also including non-resident. I have carried in Michigan and I believe they were one of the first any resident permit states. There are now more of course.
    Actually, I think Indiana was one of the first, if not the first. Unfortunately, for Indiana, since they have no training requirements, not all that many recognize their permit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Lowe
    Actually, I think Indiana was one of the first, if not the first. Unfortunately, for Indiana, since they have no training requirements, not all that many recognize their permit.
    That and Indiana issues to 18 year olds IIRC. I know most states don't issue until you are 21 and in a few more 23 plus. I imagine that is another hurdle to Indiana permits getting recognized by other states.

    -Scott-

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott
    That and Indiana issues to 18 year olds IIRC. I know most states don't issue until you are 21 and in a few more 23 plus. I imagine that is another hurdle to Indiana permits getting recognized by other states.

    -Scott-
    What I don't get is why the 18 thing is a hurdle, since the way most state's CCW laws are written, an 18 year old with an Indiana permit would still not be allowed to carry in another state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Lowe
    What I don't get is why the 18 thing is a hurdle, since the way most state's CCW laws are written, an 18 year old with an Indiana permit would still not be allowed to carry in another state.
    Yeah I know. Most states wrote their law so that it states you must be XX years old and have a permit from XXXXXXX etc. So it shouldn't be a problem. I inquired when I lived in VA and the training and age of issuing were the two reasons given. In MO it doesn't matter because all permits are recognized here. I moved Labor Day weekend from VA to MO, so that is why those two references.

    What I'm trying to figure out is if I can still carry on my VA Resident permit since VA says it is valid until it expires and there is no provision in VA for a change of address. However I'm not a resident of VA any more. One of those it may be legal, but how much money would it cost me to go to court to get that determination deals.

    -Scott-

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    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Hey, Texas first extended one way acceptance of permits from NM even when NM residents didn't have a viable CCW option, and now look at them. They're better off.

    The fact is, Texas is a big state and can throw its weight around a little bit. It gives a Maryland or Kali resident just a little bit of credibility and clout to be able to point to Texas and say "You see that huge state over there that everyone knows and recognizes? I can CCW there. So why not here?"

    It's a tiny little push in the right direction. I like it because it puts just that much more pressure on the other states to return the favor perhaps.

  16. #15
    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    I'd really like to see ALL the shall issue states have unilateral acceptance off ALL other states CCW. For that matter, I'd like to see a federal law that would say something like, if you have a valid CCW, it would be valid ANYWHERE in the USA, whether they have a CCW law or not. THAT would be a kick in the butt to Illinois, Wisconsin, Kansas and Nebraska. Not to mention NYC, and DC.

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