TSA threat: mulling banning firearms on ALL airport properties

This is a discussion on TSA threat: mulling banning firearms on ALL airport properties within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Link: USA Today -- TSA Weighs Airport Gun Ban in Unsecured Areas TSA weighs airport gun ban in unsecured areas By Thomas Frank, USA TODAY ...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 39

Thread: TSA threat: mulling banning firearms on ALL airport properties

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    24,175

    Thumbs down TSA threat: mulling banning firearms on ALL airport properties

    Link: USA Today -- TSA Weighs Airport Gun Ban in Unsecured Areas

    TSA weighs airport gun ban in unsecured areas

    By Thomas Frank, USA TODAY
    August 7, 2008

    WASHINGTON — The Transportation Security Administration may allow airports to ban firearms from terminals, parking lots, roads and other airport areas where many states currently allow passengers to carry lethal weapons.

    Airport officials and lawmakers are watching closely as the TSA weighs a request by Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport to modify its security program to impose an airportwide ban on guns. It is the first such request to TSA from an airport.

    "Any decisions we make that affect (Atlanta) could affect every other airport in the country," TSA spokesman Christopher White said Thursday.

    Federal law bars passengers from bringing weapons to or past airport checkpoints. But in many airports, state law allows passengers to carry guns and knives in unsecured areas such as a main terminal — often to airport officials' dismay.

    "I don't really like the idea of people coming here with weapons and carrying them into terminals, but that's their right as citizens of the state of Texas," said Alan Black, public safety chief at Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport.

    In Atlanta, the issue arose last month after the state passed a law to allow Georgia residents with gun licenses to carry firearms onto public transportation, including subways, buses and airports. When the city-owned airport vowed to maintain its longstanding firearms ban, GeorgiaCarry.org, a gun rights group, sued.

    On July 17, after the lawsuit was filed, the request from Hartsfield officials asked the TSA to amend its airport security program to include a gun ban. Each of the nation's 450 commercial airports has a detailed written security program that can be changed only with TSA approval.

    Hartsfield's effort is backed by airport groups and House Homeland Security Committee Chairman Bennie Thompson, D-Miss., who plans hearings next month on airport efforts to ban guns. "If airports think (guns) should not be allowed, they should have the right to modify their security plan to reflect that," he said.

    The Airports Council International said in a recent letter to Hartsfield, "There is no justification for permitting firearms at any airport." Policies vary from state to state and from airport to airport. Some bar guns fully, others allow them, sometimes in areas such as a parking lot, said Charles Chambers, the council's security chief.

    Hartsfield spokesman Herschel Grangent said that someone firing a gun in the airport would force a massive evacuation that could disrupt flights nationwide. Hartsfield, with 89 million passengers in 2007, is the world's busiest airport.

    GeorgiaCarry.org lawyer John Monroe said the airport gun ban jeopardizes personal safety: "You might like to have a gun in your car because you come home on an 11:30 p.m. flight."

    The TSA is "trying to work through some complex legal issues," said spokesman White. He gave no timetable for a decision. Courts may ultimately decide whether an airport can override state law and prohibit guns by adding a ban to its security program, Chambers said.
    Time to contact your senators and representatives. TSA whim may be about to turn down the path that BATFE has taken.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    1,263
    Hartsfield spokesman Herschel Grangent said that someone firing a gun in the airport would force a massive evacuation that could disrupt flights nationwide. Hartsfield, with 89 million passengers in 2007, is the world's busiest airport.
    THE SKY IS FALLING!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!! If I stuck my fingers in the light sockets in my house it could kill me. Better have the government get rid of those too. It hasn't been a problem yet at any of the airports who have allowed carry there for years. Seems we love to create solutions to problems that don't exist.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

  4. #3
    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Slidell, LA
    Posts
    1,688
    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    THE SKY IS FALLING!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!! If I stuck my fingers in the light sockets in my house it could kill me. Better have the government get rid of those too. It hasn't been a problem yet at any of the airports who have allowed carry there for years. Seems we love to create solutions to problems that don't exist.
    Bingo. I've carried in plenty of TX airports when picking up friends or after claiming my checked luggage. It's been legal for CHL holders to do so for a long time, and it hasn't shut down the airline industry yet.
    "A well-educated electorate, being necessary to the continuance of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed."
    Is this hard to understand? Then why does it get unintelligible to some people when 5 little words are changed?

  5. #4
    Senior Member Array cwblanco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Amarillo, Texas
    Posts
    835
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob The Great View Post
    Bingo. I've carried in plenty of TX airports when picking up friends or after claiming my checked luggage. It's been legal for CHL holders to do so for a long time, and it hasn't shut down the airline industry yet.
    I question whether TSA can document a single incident where a licensed CHL has ever created a problem in an unsecured area of an airport.

  6. #5
    Distinguished Member Array sniper58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,631
    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    Seems we love to create solutions to problems that don't exist.
    Very well stated!
    Tim
    BE PREPARED - Noah didn't build the Ark when it was raining!
    Si vis pacem, para bellum
    ________
    NRA Life Member

  7. #6
    Senior Member Array luvmyglock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    636
    I dont think this is even relevant. I don't believe there is a single incident of a CHL holder causing problems in an airport. Just sounds like another brick in the wall of taking away our constitutional rights.
    EVIL PREVAILS WHEN GOOD MEN FAIL TO ACT.

  8. #7
    Lead Moderator
    Array rstickle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Laurel, MD
    Posts
    21,367
    Quote Originally Posted by cwblanco View Post
    I question whether TSA can document a single incident where a licensed CHL has ever created a problem in an unsecured area of an airport.
    A similar thought, aren't all but 2 airports State controlled out side the secure area? I think National and Dulles are the only two run by the Feds.
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

  9. #8
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,158
    What do rule makers do? Make rules.

    The rule makers at TSA and innumerable other Federal Agencies have a peculiar "law making" ability. They can write just about any rule they think they can get away with and publish it in the Federal Register with a request for public comments. Of course, the public usually never hears about the proposed rules because how many people make a point of reading The Federal Register.

    So, the rule gets made with no opposition, or the opposition public comments are side stepped. Then, it has teeth.

    This situation is a very vexing one. Because on the one hand there can't be (as a practical matter) Congressional debate and voting on every little thing that needs to be regulated; on the other hand, it is the Executive Branch legislating.

    In this aiport-TSA instance, there is still the real issue of whether or not the airport authority (as a governmental organization, not a private business) can do what state law pre-empts it from doing. TSA authorization for the airport management to change their policy is not exactly a Federal override of Georgia's right to make laws for CC.

    What the rule makers seem to be missing is that people do travel with guns in their checked luggage. IF you can't bring them onto airport property, you can't do that. Maybe the airlines would like to stop the practice, but they can do so on their own. They set the rules for what gets to go in checked luggage.
    If they don't want to carry certain items, they can make a private policy for the airline.

    The really bad thing is that this sort of intrusive rule making erodes all sorts of freedoms. I saw something in the news the other day about a flap involving
    a city's officials getting in trouble because they replaced some sand along a river bank---without getting the right EPA permit. It was all of a few yards, and for reasons of safety and beauty, but hey, they dumped "dirt" in a waterway without the permit. (And probably kept some smaller kids from drowning.)

    Congress really needs to rein in Agency rule making and take a closer look at how to better do it--and ensure real public participation instead of the sham public comment period presently being used.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    McKinney, TX
    Posts
    3,493
    This is nothing more than a "feel good" law, to make the think they are safer this way.

    What really gets me is I can do as much, if not more, damage with my Mont Blanc than I can with a knife. I could even have a pen gun, not a very lethal weapon, but a weapon that would make it past security none the less.

    Why not use laws intelligently, the ones we already have that is. There should be no real concern of having a legal weapon in the unsecured areas of an airport, you can't hijack a plane from the ticket counter. If you are in the remote parking and you take your pistol or even rifle and shoot a plane it will still fly and land just fine (Quantas proved that 2 weeks ago with their cargo door blowing off).
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

    If you are not willing to stand behind our Troops, feel free to stand in front of them!

    -Paco

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array press1280's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    750
    So what would this do for FOPA? No one allowed to even check firearms for a flight?
    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
    Nunn v. State GA 1848

  12. #11
    Distinguished Member Array airslot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    1,492
    This is just an attempted end run around the new law that went into effect July 1, allowing carry on public transportation and the unsecured areas of the airports.

    Hartsfield management and the Atlanta Mayor have got their knickers in a twist over the changes in the state law and are looking for help in the form of a Federal smoke screen.

    They make it sound like everyone is allowed to carry, when in fact the law only applies to GFL/CHL holders.

    WHAT A MONUMENTAL WASTE OF TIME, MONEY AND EFFORT ON SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE A NON ISSUE.

    GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON
    The situation will NEVER BE THE WAY YOU WANT, it WILL BE THE WAY IT IS. You must be FLEXIBLE ENOUGH TO ADAPT and just "DEAL WITH IT".

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array rljohns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    1,030
    I don't beleive TSA has authority in the non-secure areas of the airport.

  14. #13
    Moderator
    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    43,808
    Wow! Let's stretch it all the way. One person with a firearm in an airport could effect 89 million passengers...that's a big plane!

    There are people who forget (stupid but honest mistake) about a firearm in a suitcase or briefcase all the time...ever hear of a disruption?

    Stay armed...not in the secured area...stay safe!
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

    ***********************************
    Certified Glock Armorer
    NRA Life Member[/B]

  15. #14
    Member Array Eirerogue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pasadena, CA
    Posts
    225
    OK, let me add my dos centavos here, both as a member of the Forum and as the former Asst Administrator for Operations for TSA. Yup, that's me.

    The AIRPORT has something called an ASP or Airport Security Program. In this case, we're talking Hartsfield, the largest in the US.

    The AIRPORT has asked to amend it's ASP in order that they might ban all firearms from airport grounds. That's NOT TSA's call, but the airports. TSA's only function in this is for the Federal Security Director to review the ASP amendment, see if it falls within the guidelines of regulations and sign off.

    The ISSUE here is if Hartsfield does it, will all other airports want to do the same and where does that put TSA legally. It's something for the legal eagles to work through.

    But to correct any misperceptions, it's HARTSFIELD that's driving this train, not TSA. Of course, they always get it in the nose.

    Hope this has helped.

  16. #15
    VIP Member
    Array 64zebra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Panhandle of Texas
    Posts
    6,384
    if I'm not mistaken, the areas outside secure areas (and maybe some other areas) of airports are not owned by feds but are state or CITY property and TSA has no right to say what goes on there
    I'm contacting my senators and congressman, we all need to jump on this
    LEO/CHL
    Certified Glock Armorer
    not enough space for list, main gear: duty-G17, S&W 642 bug, 870, RRA AR-15; G30 off-duty
    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Checking firearms at the airport
    By cwblanco in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: November 23rd, 2012, 11:11 PM
  2. Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide?
    By oneshot in forum Defensive Books, Video & References
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: September 28th, 2011, 07:08 AM
  3. Obummer trying to first steps in banning firearms
    By Jacob 24 in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: June 6th, 2010, 10:34 AM
  4. Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder And Suicide?
    By jualdeaux in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: May 24th, 2007, 08:49 PM
  5. Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder And Suicide?
    By jualdeaux in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: May 20th, 2007, 10:02 PM

Search tags for this page

can i have a gun in car at airport colorado

,

chl texas unsecured airport

,

firearms in sida airports

,

firearms on airport property

,

tsa firearms on airport property

,

tsa gun in car airport property

,

tsa weighs airport gun ban in unsecured areas by thomas frank, usa today august 15, 2008

,

who is allowed to have guns on airport property?

Click on a term to search for related topics.