Obama's endorsement of ban on manufacture, sale & possession of handguns?

Obama's endorsement of ban on manufacture, sale & possession of handguns?

This is a discussion on Obama's endorsement of ban on manufacture, sale & possession of handguns? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I read in the NRA's Shooting Illustrated September 2008 page 9, "...Obama's endorsement of the total ban on the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns..." ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Obama's endorsement of ban on manufacture, sale & possession of handguns?

    I read in the NRA's Shooting Illustrated September 2008 page 9, "...Obama's endorsement of the total ban on the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns..."

    I don't doubt this has happened, but when did this happen? Was it a proposal in IL or at a Federal level? When did Obama do this?

    Anyone know the details?


  2. #2
    B52
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    Let me say first, I am a Republican. I also noticed that article and am having trouble getting concise evidence to back this claim. I need all the ammo I can get when arguing with my Liberal family members.

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    He has stated he supports the Heller decision

    Quote Originally Posted by B52 View Post
    Let me say first, I am a Republican. I also noticed that article and am having trouble getting concise evidence to back this claim. I need all the ammo I can get when arguing with my Liberal family members.
    As he has stated he supports the Heller decision, I am sure it will have an impact on his thinking processes in the future.

    Besides, a ban on the manufacture of handguns isn't going to happen. It won't garner the 60 votes needed in The Senate or the majority needed in The House, under any set of foreseeable circumstance.
    Even with the Dems in charge of both houses, there are plenty who, as my Dem. rep., would not be on board with such a proposition.

    There are huge national security, internationl, economic, and social problems which our new President is going to face. Gun laws will be the bottom of the priority list.

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    Distinguished Member Array P7fanatic's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    As he has stated he supports the Heller decision, I am sure it will have an impact on his thinking processes in the future.
    Which in itself was a 170 degree flip-flop. Just one of many in the last 2 months or so. And while 'supporting' the Heller decision, in the same breath he added that communities, cities and states still had the authority to 'regulate' that 2nd Amendment right.
    Sure, you bet, just like the thinking processes of the Washington D.C. administrators.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    There are huge national security, internationl, economic, and social problems which our new President is going to face. Gun laws will be the bottom of the priority list.
    You may be right, I doubt it though. And I won't be betting my paycheck on it either.



    "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." -Thomas Jefferson

    "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder." -Michael Savage

    GOOD Gun Control is being able to hit your target! -Myself

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    Senior Member Array rljohns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    As he has stated he supports the Heller decision, I am sure it will have an impact on his thinking processes in the future.

    Besides, a ban on the manufacture of handguns isn't going to happen. It won't garner the 60 votes needed in The Senate or the majority needed in The House, under any set of foreseeable circumstance.
    Even with the Dems in charge of both houses, there are plenty who, as my Dem. rep., would not be on board with such a proposition.

    There are huge national security, internationl, economic, and social problems which our new President is going to face. Gun laws will be the bottom of the priority list.
    I sure hope you are right, but I trust no one when it comes to my rights. I'm a libertarian registered as a Republican. I still don't trust the Republicans either. It seems to be more important where you hail from than your party.

    So for now I'll cast my vote at all levels and keep my country going forward and hopefully not backward. We currently have 40 states in shall issue. Handguns legal in DC and Chicago will soon follow.

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    B52
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    P7fanatic, I am with you. We can only pray he doesn't get in. If he does the 2A issues are at great risk of loss/change as we know it. For now I am stocking up just in case.

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    Senior Member Array rljohns's Avatar
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    Stocking up may noy help if they make all semi-autos illegal retroactively. They have never tried that in the US before, but you never know. You would think the heller case would slow that down.

  8. #8
    B52
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    I would still have a bunch of revolvers and bolt actions, lol. I really think that could spark a revolution if they try to disarm everyone.

  9. #9
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    Try this link

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    I read in the NRA's Shooting Illustrated September 2008 page 9, "...Obama's endorsement of the total ban on the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns..."

    I don't doubt this has happened, but when did this happen? Was it a proposal in IL or at a Federal level? When did Obama do this?

    Anyone know the details?
    This is almost second hand hearsay but try this link. It references a survey BHO filled out on gun control

    Found in the WSJ
    Obama's Flaws Multiply - WSJ.com

    Mr. Obama also backed a total ban on handguns, a move his campaign now says was the result of a rogue aide filling out a questionnaire. But Mr. Obama's own handwritten notes were found on the questionnaire, calling into question the campaign's version of what happened.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P7fanatic View Post
    ...in itself was a 170 degree flip-flop...
    So well said. Not quite a 180. Nice.

    Thanks everyone, esp rjstorlie.

    I knew about the aid story but I could not piece it together (I wish I could see the bill & his written notes).

    As for the Heller decision, IDK were Obama is on gun-control issues. As stated on this forum many times, most pro-gun consider him to be anti-gun.

    Follow me for a second on this. I will not argue he is pro-gun. I however do not think he has thought about the issue to conclusion.

    Most of the primaries were about the war. Hillary received a lot of the pro-gun demos (and Republicians switching sides trying to get her as option B). To me, the clear reason Hillary is no longer in the race is because she voted for a war her base did not support.

    Now the war is about at an end. There is talk of us exiting by July 2009. No one on either side could claim to make it happen much faster.

    I think gun-right might just get higher on the list if the war issue starts to fade. There are also many other issues people will consider as the war issue fades (both - & + for Obama).

    So maybe one reason John is gaining in the polls is because the war is becoming less of an issue.

    So as I stated, gun-right might get higher on the list.

    So...I bet we see some interesting 2nd conversation in debates.
    Last edited by Thanis; August 27th, 2008 at 09:37 AM.

  11. #11
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    • Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)

    • Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008)

    • Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)

    • Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing. (Jan 2008)

    • 2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month. (Oct 2007)

    • Concealed carry OK only for retired police officers. (Aug 2007)

    • Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)

    • Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)

    • Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban. (Oct 2004)

    • Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)

    • Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)


    Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws

    Q: Is the D.C. law prohibiting ownership of handguns consistent with an individual's right to bear arms?

    A: As a general principle, I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right, in the same way that we have a right to private property but local governments can establish zoning ordinances that determine how you can use it.

    Q: But do you still favor the registration & licensing of guns?

    A: I think we can provide common-sense approaches to the issue of illegal guns that are ending up on the streets. We can make sure that criminals don't have guns in their hands. We can make certain that those who are mentally deranged are not getting a hold of handguns. We can trace guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers that may be selling to straw purchasers and dumping them on the streets.

    Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate, on eve of PA primary Apr 16, 2008


    Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban

    Obama was being misleading when he denied that his handwriting had been on a document endorsing a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in Illinois. Obama responded, "No, my writing wasn't on that particular questionnaire. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns."
    Actually, Obama's writing was on the 1996 document, which was filed when Obama was running for the Illinois state Senate. A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line:

    35. Do you support state legislation to:
    a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.
    b. ban assault weapons? Yes.
    c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.

    Obama's campaign said, "Sen. Obama didn't fill out these state Senate questionnaires--a staffer did--and there are several answers that didn't reflect his views then or now. He may have jotted some notes on the front page of the questionnaire, but some answers didn't reflect his views."

    Source: FactCheck.org analysis of 2008 Philadelphia primary debate Apr 16, 2008

    Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok


    Q: You said recently, "I have no intention of taking away folks' guns." But you support the D.C. handgun ban, and you've said that it's constitutional. How do you reconcile those two positions?

    A: Because I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it's important for us to recognize that we've got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets. And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and people's traditions.

    Source: 2008 Politico pre-Potomac Primary interview Feb 11, 2008

    Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing


    Q: When you were in the state senate, you talked about licensing and registering gun owners. Would you do that as president?

    A: I don't think that we can get that done. But what we can do is to provide just some common-sense enforcement. The efforts by law enforcement to obtain the information required to trace back guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers. As president, I intend to make it happen. We essentially have two realities, when it comes to guns, in this country. You've got the tradition of lawful gun ownership. It is very important for many Americans to be able to hunt, fish, take their kids out, teach them how to shoot. Then you've got the reality of 34 Chicago public school students who get shot down on the streets of Chicago. We can reconcile those two realities by making sure the Second Amendment is respected and that people are able to lawfully own guns, but that we also start cracking down on the kinds of abuses of firearms that we see on the streets.

    Source: 2008 Democratic debate in Las Vegas Jan 15, 2008

    2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month

    Obama sought moderate gun control measures, such as a 2000 bill he cosponsored to limit handgun purchases to one per month (it did not pass). He voted against letting people violate local weapons bans in cases of self-defense, but also voted in2004 to let retired police officers carry concealed handguns.
    Source: The Improbable Quest, by John K. Wilson, p.148 Oct 30, 2007

    Concealed carry OK only for retired police officers


    Obama voted for a bill in the Illinois senate that allowed retired law enforcement officers to carry concealed weapons. If there was any issue on which Obama rarely deviated, it was gun control. He was the most strident candidate when it came to enforcin and expanding gun control laws. So this vote jumped out as inconsistent.
    When I queried him about the vote, he said, "I didn't find that [vote] surprising. I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry. This was a narrow exception in an exceptional circumstance where a retired police officer might find himself vulnerable as a consequence of the work he has previously done--and had been trained extensively in the proper use of firearms."

    It wasn't until a few weeks later that another theory came forward about the uncharacteristic vote. Obama was battling with his GOP opponent to win the endorsement of the Fraternal Order of Police.

    Source: From Promise to Power, by David Mendell, p.250-251 Aug 14, 2007

    Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities


    Q: How would you address gun violence that continues to be the #1 cause of death among African-American men?

    A: You know, when the massacre happened at Virginia Tech, I think all of us were grief stricken and shocked by the carnage. But in this year alone, in Chicago, we've had 34 Chicago public school students gunned down and killed. And for the most part, there has been silence. We know what to do. We've got to enforce the gun laws that are on the books. We've got to make sure that unscrupulous gun dealers aren't loading up vans and dumping guns in our communities, because we know they're not made in our communities. There aren't any gun manufacturers here, right here in the middle of Detroit. But what we also have to do is to make sure that we change our politics so that we care just as much about those 30-some children in Chicago who've been shot as we do the children in Virginia Tech. That's a mindset that we have to have in the White House and we don't have it right now.

    Source: 2007 NAACP Presidential Primary Forum Jul 12, 2007

    Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality


    I believe in keeping guns out of our inner cities, and that our leaders must say so in the face of the gun manfuacturer's lobby. But I also believe that when a gangbanger shoots indiscriminately into a crowd because he feels someone disrespected him, we have a problem of morality. Not only do ew need to punish thatman for his crime, but we need to acknowledge that there's a hole in his heart, one that government programs alone may not be able to repair.

    Source: The Audacity of Hope, by Barack Obama, p.215 Oct 1, 2006

    Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban


    KEYES: [to Obama]: I am a strong believer in the second amendment. The gun control mentality is ruthlessly absurd. It suggests that we should pass a law that prevents law abiding citizens from carrying weapons. You end up with a situation where the crook have all the guns and the law abiding citizens cannot defend themselves. I guess that's good enough for Senator Obama who voted against the bill that would have allowed homeowners to defend themselves if their homes were broken into.
    OBAMA: Let's be honest. Mr. Keyes does not believe in common gun control measures like the assault weapons bill. Mr. Keyes does not believe in any limits from what I can tell with respect to the possession of guns, including assault weapons that have only one purpose, to kill people. I think it is a scandal that this president did not authorize a renewal of the assault weapons ban.

    Source: Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes Oct 21, 2004

    Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions


    Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:
    Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
    Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.
    Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.
    Source: 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness test Jul 2, 1998

    Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers.


    A bill to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others. Voting YES would:
    Exempt lawsuits brought against individuals who knowingly transfer a firearm that will be used to commit a violent or drug-trafficking crime
    Exempt lawsuits against actions that result in death, physical injury or property damage due solely to a product defect
    Call for the dismissal of all qualified civil liability actions pending on the date of enactment by the court in which the action was brought
    Prohibit the manufacture, import, sale or delivery of armor piercing ammunition, and sets a minimum prison term of 15 years for violations
    Require all licensed importers, manufacturers and dealers who engage in the transfer of handguns to provide secure gun storage or safety devices
    Reference: Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act; Bill S 397 ; vote number 2005-219 on Jul 29, 2005

  12. #12
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    Hey, isn't that one of those scary looking assault rifles?

    Sarah is my kind of women.
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    Warning: Driver only carries $20 worth of ammunition.

  14. #14
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    Encouraging to see her with such a weapon, but the wouldn't the way she's holding it take quite a chunk out of the top of her shoulder? I suppose it was a photo snapped a fraction of a second too early as she was bringing it into position.

    Not sure about the issue of vote-for-the-lesser-of-two-evils or vote-for-the-one-you-really-want-to-represent-you. But her stance on 2A sure is intriguing.

    Still may write in Bumper, though.

  15. #15
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    Somewhere else on the forum is a picture of Sen. Chuck Schumer firing a Tec-9 with a big grin on his face. Pictures of someone shooting a gun tell you nothing about their stance on gun control or the 2A.

    I had someone attend both my Basic Pistol and Metallic Cartridge reloading courses with a Obama 08 bumper sticker on their car. So ya know...
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.

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