One Anti-Assault Weapon argument I find flawed.

One Anti-Assault Weapon argument I find flawed.

This is a discussion on One Anti-Assault Weapon argument I find flawed. within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Just wanted to stir the nest a bit. I've read a lot of threads on how liberals don't understand what an assault rifle is. However ...

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Thread: One Anti-Assault Weapon argument I find flawed.

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    One Anti-Assault Weapon argument I find flawed.

    Just wanted to stir the nest a bit.

    I've read a lot of threads on how liberals don't understand what an assault rifle is. However in a lot of those those threads I also see post that states anti-gun would call a hunting rifle with a high capacity mag an assault rifle.

    I then see the next level of assumption that I find odd. People post that there should be no ban on "assault weapons" because there is no real difference between an assault rifle and a hunting rifle with a high capacity mag.

    I think this logic is flawed. You can not state anti-gun is stupid because they can't tell the difference between an assault weapon and a hunting rifle then turn around and say there is no real difference.

    At one time I considered buying a high capacity mag for my Remington 30.06. I then realized how hot the barrel can become (and how this is not the right weapon to shoot multiple shots out of fast). Assault weapons get hot, but they are designed to take the heat.

    There are also confusing caliber issues.

    I'm in no way stating there should be an assault weapon ban. But I know there is a difference between a hunting rifle and a an assault rifle.
    Last edited by Thanis; September 12th, 2008 at 07:18 PM.


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    762
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    30 rounds through my AK and you can cook eggs on my barrel.

    It's more about appearance then function. A Remington 700 has a 5 round capacity which would be considered a machine gun in D.C.
    Let's Roll - Todd Beamer

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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Type of weapon has nothing to do with banning anything. Its only a label or tool to use to make their job easier. I recall many years ago watching c-span when a congressman referred to a 44 mag desert eagle as an assault weapon.

    Notice how now that they have added this new term to our vocabulary they constantly try to add new weapons to it? Firearms that were not assault weapons last year suddenly are now?

    Now they are adding semi-auto's to the machine gun lists.
    All this has nothing to do with any particular type of weapon. Its just a tool they are using to ban all guns.
    Anyone else remember way back when they said all they wanted to take were the machine guns? They didnt want anything else?
    Afterall we didnt really "NEED" them.

    Michael

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    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    When the anti's start defining any high powered rifle with a scope as a sniper rifle with bullet proof vest penetrating rounds, IMO, that is going too far.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    They went to far when they stopped Mail order of surplus weapons. They wont stop till they get all weapons that can shoot a projectile. All the way down to Rubber bands and spitwads. Some places already ban slingshots and blowguns as well as crossbows.

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    762
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    the media created the "assault weapon" and the public bought it along with the anti gun politicians.

    we didn't "need" machine guns...soon they will tell us we don't need rifles that hold more then 1 round.
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    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    ...Notice how now that they have added this new term to our vocabulary...
    How is "assault weapon" a new term added by liberals? I think was a military term (1st mentioned in WW2 by Germany?).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    When the anti's start defining any high powered rifle with a scope as a sniper rifle with bullet proof vest penetrating rounds, IMO, that is going too far.
    Agree.

    However, it also goes to far to state that there should be no ban on "assault weapons" because there is no real difference between an assault rifle and a hunting rifle with a high capacity mag.

    To state again, I'm not saying there should be a ban, I'm just saying this is a flawed argument by gun-owners.

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    Member Array whyipackmy45's Avatar
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    Have you seen the fake Palin bikini picture where she is holding a BB gun?

    Several people in the media called that gun an "assault rifle" and even an "AK-47".
    That's right, this sweet baby was made in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Retails for about a hundred and nine, ninety five. It's got a walnut stock, cobalt blue steel, and a hair trigger. That's right. Shop smart. Shop S-Mart. You got that?

    http://www.nevadashooters.com

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    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whyipackmy45 View Post
    Have you seen the fake Palin bikini picture where she is holding a BB gun? Several people in the media called that gun an "assault rifle" and even an "AK-47".
    Well, not really. People assumed that the media assumed the picture was an assault rifle.

    Besides, how does what you are stating justify stating there should be no ban on "assault weapons" because there is no real difference between an assault rifle and a hunting rifle with a high capacity mag?

    I think anti-assault ban should come up with a better argument. Not that I'm for an assault ban. I just want to better understand the issue, beyond this weak old statement.

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    wpk
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    Aren't all weapons technically "assault weapons"? I could hit someone with a stick I found on the ground...the stick is now a weapon that I assaulted someone with. Hrm...is there a CC permit for sticks? I think I could cobble up a nice IWB rig for one.

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    762
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    "assault" is a negative word and the media will use it to juicy up a story.

    up until February, the SKS was never called an "assault weapon" until the shooting in Philly. adding "assault" scares the
    Let's Roll - Todd Beamer

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    Member Array bigiceman's Avatar
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    On another forum someone put it quite well. They said " I don't own any assault rifles, only counter-assault rifles."

    That being said we are being subjected to the old strategy of incrimental denial. Make sure you never take a lot of things from a lot of people or everyone will get upset. Take a very speicific thing from a very few people and then it will seem reasonable. Then keep doing that until there is nothing left and most of the people don't notice.

    This is why we have to have "zero" tolerance for any firearms related legislation. We also have to be very critical of our local and national media any time they get it wrong or agrandize a story involving firearms. They will scare the sheep any time they can because the sheep buy papers too and they are entertained by sensationalism. If they get it wrong they have to be made to feel the effects of their error. Letters, phone calls to the media outlet and their sponsors. We are a minority make no mistake. They can isolate and dispose of us with this incrimental strategy and the majority will neither notice or care until it is too late.
    But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
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    762
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    my Poor AK has never bothered anyone and look at the rap it gets. In fact, Santa's bringing her a baby brother for Christmas i think.
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    Member Array whyipackmy45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    Besides, how does what you are stating justify stating there should be no ban on "assault weapons" because there is no real difference between an assault rifle and a hunting rifle with a high capacity mag?

    I think anti-assault ban should come up with a better argument. Not that I'm for an assault ban. I just want to better understand the issue, beyond this weak old statement.
    Personally I've known more people to be murdered by .22LR than any other caliber. Apparently that's not a safe caliber.

    It is ridiculous to think that some guns are dangerous while others are safe.

    Say you have some psycho in California who wants to go on a shooting spree. Do you really think he'll refrain from using a 30 round magazine because it's illegal?

    If you limit handgun mags to 10 rounds, who do you think will have 10 rounds in their self defense weapon: us or the criminals? We will because we follow the laws. The criminals will still have 17. If anything, it gives the criminals an advantage.
    That's right, this sweet baby was made in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Retails for about a hundred and nine, ninety five. It's got a walnut stock, cobalt blue steel, and a hair trigger. That's right. Shop smart. Shop S-Mart. You got that?

    http://www.nevadashooters.com

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    Lets get something clear here.

    The term "assault weapon" was first used by the Germans in WW2.
    They started the whole concept of assault weapon when their elite paratroopers began using medium powered cartridges that were more powerful than the pistol cartridges being used in sub-machine guns at the time, but due to their short rounds, didn't need the heavy weight of the guns used for the battle rounds at that time.

    The original assault rifle was lighter than a rifle, hit fairly hard, held more rounds than anything else, and could fire either single shot or full automatic.

    A true assault rifle in todays world means that ANY rifle that shoots in a full automatic mode, regardless of caliber, a gun designed for one reason only, to kill the enemy's of its bearer.

    Most people do in fact, speak from ignorance when "assault rifles" are even discussed. Since the news media generally excels only in getting simple things wrong, they are the ones responsible for spreading the ignorance and it becomes very obvious where people are getting their facts from...a bunch of overgrown hippies that are wearing suits and are mostly anti-gun.

    Now, when anti-s speak of assault weapons, they use that term to include ANY gun that fires a shot and automatically reloads itself, which is most guns today.
    Since they redefine the English language as they see fit to mean whatever they want it to mean, it is their use of assault weapons that most people use, because they just don't know any better.

    We hear of the SKS being an assault weapon. Wrong, it is semi auto.
    We hear of some sicko shooting people with an AR, wrong again, it is semi auto only.
    We even hear of assault shotguns, because they have black stocks and magazine extensions and pistol grips. Some states even ban the use of them on pump shotguns like the Remington 870 or the Mossberg 500.

    Thanis, when you quit thinking like an anti, maybe you will realize that the media doesn't care about accuracy in reporting. Someday you will figure out that its not about guns at all, its about power.

    The only way that some people can come to power is to disarm the citizens first, one step at a time, not so much that they take notice and figure it out, but they do it just a bit here and a bit there until one day you wake up and you realize that you have nothing left.

    Semi autos now =assault weapons. Bolt action rifles with scopes = sniper rifles...
    Big calibers = weapons of war, because they can shoot down planes.
    Semi auto pistols that have more than 10 rounds = assault pistols.

    It never quits. Tomorrow it will be something else.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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