Gun Control Now Toxic Issue of US Election, Threat to Obama Campaign

Gun Control Now Toxic Issue of US Election, Threat to Obama Campaign

This is a discussion on Gun Control Now Toxic Issue of US Election, Threat to Obama Campaign within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Washington Times - LAMBRO: Gun control target practice Gun control has suddenly emerged as the toxic issue of the 2008 presidential campaign, endangering Barack Obama's ...

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  1. #1
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    Gun Control Now Toxic Issue of US Election, Threat to Obama Campaign

    Washington Times - LAMBRO: Gun control target practice

    Gun control has suddenly emerged as the toxic issue of the 2008 presidential campaign, endangering Barack Obama's appeal among Democratic blue-collar and labor union households.

    The freshman Illinois senator has a long record of favoring gun bans in Chicago and Washington, D.C., and a raft of other gun control bills that are anathema to gun owners, hunters and sportsmen alike.

    He insists now he supports Second Amendment gun rights to keep and bear arms that the U.S. Supreme Court upheld when it struck down the D.C. gun ban in June. But he refused to join 77 of his colleagues who signed a friend of the court brief to end the weapons ban and remains sympathetic to a broad range of gun ban statutes.

    Yet the Obama campaign has been running ads in key states with large populations of gun owners and hunters, insisting he supports the right to own a gun. He cannot run away from his record.

    The McCain campaign, the Republican National Committee and the nearly 4 million-member National Rifle Association are blanketing the country with ads, Web site videos and other broadsides detailing his record - especially in battleground states where gun controls are political poison.

    NRA officials told me this week they are mounting the biggest anti-gun control offensive in their history to make sure every gun owner in the country knows that deep down Mr. Obama does not believe people should own guns.

    "We are going to spend whatever our members send us," said NRA chief lobbyist Chris Cox. "Obama assumes our members are either stupid or have short memories, or both. What he's going to find out is not only are they a loyal voting bloc, but a savvy voting bloc who don't become bitter by owning guns but become bitter when politicians lie to them or mock their lifestyle."

    The gun rights voting bloc is a sizable force in American politics, with 90 million gun owners in the country that the NRA has become proficient in mobilizing in presidential elections. Their largest numbers are found in states like Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio, West Virginia, and in the West in places like Montana, Nevada and Colorado - battleground red states that Obama Democrats hope to carry this time.

    President Clinton believes to this day that Al Gore's pro-gun control record cost him three to six states and the 2000 election. Voter exit polls at that time found about 48 percent of voters owned guns, up from 37 percent in 1996. George Bush won 61 percent of their vote.

    It became such a deadly issue during that period that Democrats largely abandoned any mention of gun control laws in their campaigns or began running as gun rights Democrats - like former Gov. Mark Warner and Sen. James Webb in Virginia and Sen. Bob Casey in Pennsylvania.

    Montana illustrates the Democrats' growing gun problems. The Obama high command targeted it early this year because it has been rapidly trending Democratic in recent years. Obama has visited the state five times in this campaign and has a large, full-time ground organization working there.

    But earlier this year Democratic Gov. Brian Schweitzer bluntly told the New York Times that Mr. Obama could not carry his state because of his gun control record. "In Montana, we like our guns. We like big guns. We like little guns. We like shotguns. We like pistols. Most of us own two or three guns. Gun control is hitting what you shoot at," the feisty rancher told the Times. When asked why he thought the Democratic nominee could not win the state, he replied, "Guns."

    Polls bear him out. A recent Rasmussen survey of Montana voters now shows Mr. Obama trailing John McCain by 53 percent to 42 percent. Democratic strategist Simon Rosenberg, who heads the New Democrat Network, released new polls last week finding Montana "seems to be drifting back into the GOP camp."

    Gun-owner doubts about Mr. Obama is to a large extent why he is running behind or is in a dead heat in states where a Democrat should be doing well this year - like Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Nevada.

    In heavily Democratic Michigan, for example, the economy is by far the No. 1 issue, but pollsters say gun control fears are one of the reasons the race is in a dead heat in the strong union state.

    "The state has one of the highest gun-ownership rates in the country and in a downbeat economy where Obama should be doing well, he is underperforming among union members and other folks with hunting backgrounds," said Michigan pollster Bernie Porn, president of EPIC/MRA.

    Notably, Mr. Porn finds Mr. Obama "has slipped among the state's labor union members by 10 points. His support was at 61 percent in July but dropped to 51 percent in August."

    Republican campaign broadsides portray Mr. Obama as "the most anti-gun presidential candidate in American history" a message that now threatens to hurt him among his own party's base.
    Picking the self proclaimed AWB author was not the smartest move.
    Let's Roll - Todd Beamer

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  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 762 View Post
    Picking the self proclaimed AWB author was not the smartest move.
    Agreed, very much.

    Not only was it not smart but shows either how boldly ignorant he is of real world conditions...or how boldly dismissive he is toward real world conditions.
    Neither is good to my view, singularly. Never mind his demonstrated weakness in a multitude of other areas of thought and analysis.

    Never mind that Biden does not represent 'Change' and is old school establishment, which runs completely contrary to the wolf tickets Obama has been selling since four years ago.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Senior Member Array 762's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Agreed, very much.

    Not only was it not smart but shows either how boldly ignorant he is of real world conditions...or how boldly dismissive he is toward real world conditions.
    Neither is good to my view, singularly. Never mind his demonstrated weakness in a multitude of other areas of thought and analysis.

    Never mind that Biden does not represent 'Change' and is old school establishment, which runs completely contrary to the wolf tickets Obama has been selling since four years ago.

    - Janq
    just his view on guns and his record on them is enough for any gun owner to oppose him. His VP pick is just as bad.

    He knows Gore and Kerry lost partially due to the gun vote...he would have fared better with Richardson, or some other person from a gun friendly state.
    Let's Roll - Todd Beamer

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    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    He was the grand flavor of the primaries, but for the general election the aftertaste of his policies and those of his chosen running mate are going to hurt. The author of the AWB alone, as a VP canidate, will alianiate more voters than it will win over.

    "In heavily Democratic Michigan, for example, the economy is by far the No. 1 issue, but pollsters say gun control fears are one of the reasons the race is in a dead heat in the strong union state.

    "The state has one of the highest gun-ownership rates in the country and in a downbeat economy where Obama should be doing well, he is underperforming among union members and other folks with hunting backgrounds," said Michigan pollster Bernie Porn, president of EPIC/MRA."

    That attitude there pretty well sums it up for most of the country me thinks.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

    (Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 762 View Post
    just his view on guns and his record on them is enough for any gun owner to oppose him. His VP pick is just as bad.

    He knows Gore and Kerry lost partially due to the gun vote...he would have fared better with Richardson, or some other person from a gun friendly state.
    +1

    I had a small dinner party at my home this past weekend amongst several of my neighbors, all but two (a couple) are staunch Democrats and happen to be Obama supporters. I am very cool with all of them politics aside.

    The topic of the election came up of course and these people are largely connected persons within MA politics and one having old insider direct ties to Washington. Another knows Obama directly and has been central to his campaign efforts here in MA.

    So anyway a comment was made to me upon my amazement that the clearly moderate and logical choice of Richardson was not made by Obama. Hell Richardson could eat Obama and Biden for dinner and have room enough for dessert.
    The response to me was that he was discussed but that he is _rumored_ to have and I quote; "A zipper problem", and that would be an item of difficulty to overcome.
    I literally laughed out loud in response.

    Now this to me is unsubstantiated but for the sake of conversation say it were true and he has some sex skeleton in his closet, as does like half of Washington. I responded, after laughing, by saying "So!?".
    Getting over and past that toward an election win is an easier sell than having the voting public ignore or forget that Joe Biden is as anti-gun and anti-2A as they come. Especially considering that the votes required to win are a known to be narrow and heavily dependent on states that are chock full of gun owners, hunters, and sports men, women, and voting age children. Duh!

    It'll be interesting to see how this pans out and I very well could be wrong, but I maintain that a pick of Joe Biden was a wrong play by Obama.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    A few minutes ago I noted the following is now making headlines at ABCNews.com...


    Presidential Race Tightens, Moves to Familiar Battlegrounds
    The Barack Obama-John McCain Fight Moves to Familiar Battleground and Swing States

    By JENNIFER PARKER
    Sept. 18, 2008

    This is how close the contest for the White House really is: It comes down to an Electoral College slugfest over 14 states, and in some of those key states the race is too close to call...

    ...ABC News has identified 14 states that could go for either Obama or McCain in November. Those states include Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, North Carolina, Virginia, Missouri, Indiana, Wisconsin, Colorado, Iowa, New Mexico, Nevada and New Hampshire.

    Those 14 states have a total of 175 electoral votes up for grabs, more than half of the 270 needed to claim victory.

    Despite Obama's effort to expand the nation's electoral map, the election is poised to hang on the same states that proved decisive in 2000 and 2004. The candidates' spending indicates the importance those states play in their strategies for victory.

    The complete report can be found at; ABC News: Presidential Race Tightens, Moves to Familiar Battlegrounds
    Any US politics idiot from as far back as six months ago could have called this condition to occur as current.
    How and why Obama and his team did not know/realize this was and would be the case in selecting Biden is simply amazing, and again IMHO telling.
    Normally a guy trying to win a horse race doesn't purposefully pick a long shot, that is known to be a nag.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    +1 on all the posts; I personally felt that Obama would have been far better served by picking Bill Richardson to be VP. By not picking him, instead picking a Washington insider from an eastern state that is rabidly liberal just confirms what other posters have opined, that Obama is an elitist. His choice reflects that pefectly.

    If he had picked Richardson, he would have had a solid pro-gun candidate, and would have made tremendous inroada to winning the southern vote.

    Like I said before, the further we go, the more flaws begin to appear. I can hardly wait for the debates.......
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

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    Yes, but Richardson self-destructed

    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    +1

    So anyway a comment was made to me upon my amazement that the clearly moderate and logical choice of Richardson was not made by Obama. Hell Richardson could eat Obama and Biden for dinner and have room enough for dessert.

    - Janq
    Going into this thing 18 months ago, Richardson was my guy. But, he self destructed. He has (in the past) had a great tv persona, even when appearing on FOX. But he fumbled and bumbled his way through the debates and looked lost.

    Given the guys tremendous experience in the UN, dealing with North Korea on nukes, in Congress (I think), and as governor, he should have been high on the list of vp choices, maybe for either party.

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    Senior Member Array 762's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    A few minutes ago I noted the following is now making headlines at ABCNews.com...



    Any US politics idiot from as far back as six months ago could have called this condition to occur as current.
    How and why Obama and his team did not know/realize this was and would be the case in selecting Biden is simply amazing, and again IMHO telling.
    Normally a guy trying to win a horse race doesn't purposefully pick a long shot, that is known to be a nag.

    - Janq
    the mans utter arrogance and price going into the convention had him thinking it was in the bag for him...then Palin came along and awoke the sleeping giant that is the GOP's conservative base. now, all the states he thought he had, he is struggling in...in NY - a blue state, he is slackin on polls.
    Let's Roll - Todd Beamer

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Agreed Hopyard.

    During the dinner I had it was also mentioned that Lieberman was shopped around toward the concept of a crossover ticket. I'm told that the think tankers and insiders did not like him as he'd be viewed to be a turncoat opportunistic flip flopper untrusted by either side. Which I think would be an accurate view.
    But if Richardson were to be called upon and did same I'd be willing to bet with a vote that he'd not only pull it off but do so convincingly and most importantly effectively, per his real and recognizable record of long and positive standing.

    What an opportunity squandered.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Agreed Hopyard.

    During the dinner I had it was also mentioned that Lieberman was shopped around toward the concept of a crossover ticket. I'm told that the think tankers and insiders did not like him as he'd be viewed to be a turncoat opportunistic flip flopper untrusted by either side. Which I think would be an accurate view.
    But if Richardson were to be called upon and did same I'd be willing to bet with a vote that he'd not only pull it off but do so convincingly and most importantly effectively, per his real and recognizable record of long and positive standing.

    What an opportunity squandered.

    - Janq
    Obama needed someone to shore up the hard left, gun hating, american hating base while trying to move to the middle.

    Richardson would not have done that so well for him.
    Let's Roll - Todd Beamer

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Correct and agreed. ^^
    And pandering to that minority subset of Dems is short sighted, even as many of them might be of notable wealth and influence.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Senior Member Array lance22's Avatar
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    Guns / [or 'hunting' as the FUDD's call it] might indeed swing the state of MN. Formerly I had thought that MN was solidly in Obama's pocket and this was indeed the case. But Palin is attracting alot of outdoors people ... snowmobilers, hunters, fisherman ... they all see one of their own in Palin.

    If MN's electoral votes go to McCain because of Palin, that will be a huge accomplishment considering where we were two months ago.

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    I don't contribute to one party or the other money wise. Although, I am a proud NRA member and I wholeheartedly support the NRA financially. I would hope that the gun owners and hunters of America will not vote for someone who has such an agenda against gun ownership.

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    Senior Member Array jofrdo's Avatar
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    I was watching Richardson with great interest. But as soon as he withdrew from the Democratic primaries, I became a McCaine man. All that was left in the Democratic race were gun banning left wingers.

    Richardson is the kind of moderate pro-gun Democrat that I can support every day of the week. He had congressional experience, chief of state experience as Governor of New Mexico, foreign policy experience as a UN Ambassador and special envoy for the Clinton White House, Executive Branch experience as Secretary of Energy and is pro-gun to boot. As Governor, he supported and signed New Mexico's concealed carry legislation and has a CWP himself.

    The national Democratic leadership recognize the need to field moderate pro-gun candidates and did very well in the mid-term elections using that strategy. But nobody told the rank and file, whose primary voting winnowed out the moderates, leaving only the left wingers. They managed to lose my vote in the process.

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