Ugly: 'Several' die in gun rampage at Finnish college - Merged

Ugly: 'Several' die in gun rampage at Finnish college - Merged

This is a discussion on Ugly: 'Several' die in gun rampage at Finnish college - Merged within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26849077 HELSINKI, Finland - A male student shot dead several people at a college in Finland on Tuesday, local authorities said. The shooting spree occurred ...

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Thread: Ugly: 'Several' die in gun rampage at Finnish college - Merged

  1. #1
    Member Array Sejune's Avatar
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    Ugly: 'Several' die in gun rampage at Finnish college - Merged

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26849077

    HELSINKI, Finland - A male student shot dead several people at a college in Finland on Tuesday, local authorities said.

    The shooting spree occurred in the town of Kauhajoki, about 180 miles northwest of Helsinki. According to local reports, there were about 200 people in the building when the 20-year-old student started shooting "around himself".

    Kauhajoki Mayor Antti Rantakokko told Reuters that "several" were killed in the rampage.

    The Associated Press reported that police said they had disarmed the gunman. Superintendent Jussi Muotio of the Kauhajoki police confirmed that the incident was over and said police did not know if anyone had been killed.

    Finnish television channel YLE said a teacher witnessed at least 10 people being shot. It also reported that one college worker spotted a man wearing a ski mask carrying a large bag enter the building before the shooting began.

    Jarkko Sipila, a journalist with MTV3 News, told CNN that there was a fire burning in the building where the rampage occurred and that police had confirmed several people were injured. He said the college catered for students aged 16 and older.

    Kari Saarinen, chief physician at Senajoki Hospital, about 40 miles from Kauhajoki, said hospitals in the area were on full emergency alert.

    'Peaceful place'
    He added that he was unsure about the number of victims, but believed there were several — some wounded, some dead.

    Speaking to the BBC, Finnish journalist Timo Huowinan described Kauhajoki as a "peaceful place where you could never believe something like this would happen".

    The shootings occurred almost a year after a gunman killed eight people and himself at a school in southern Finland.

    Kauhajoki is a municipality of 14,000 people located in the province of Western Finland and is part of the Southern Ostrobothnia region.

    This is a breaking news story. Please check back for updates.


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    After a shooting that happened a year ago in finland...Just thought the age to buy a firearm was interesting.

    After Auvinen's rampage, the government said it would raise the minimum age for buying guns from 15 to 18
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  3. #3
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    One peturbed 20 year old.............

    Anytime, AND anywhere
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

    (Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    A little research into Finnish gun laws.......


    The ownership and use of firearms is regulated by the Firearms Act of 1998.

    Firearms can only be obtained with an acquisition license, which can be applied for at the local police for €32. A separate license is required for each individual firearm and family members can have parallel licenses to use the same firearm. According to law, the firearms must be stored in a locked space or otherwise locked, or with vital parts removed and separated. Even then the weapon or any of its separated parts must not be easily stolen. If an especially dangerous firearm or more than 5 pistols, revolvers or self-loading rifles or other-type firearms are being stored, they must be stored in a certified gun safe or in a secure space inspected and approved by the local police authority.

    They may be carried only when they are transported from their place of storage to the place of use (shooting range, hunting area or such). Even then they must be unloaded and concealed or kept in carrying pouches. Aside from law enforcement agents and military personnel, only security guards with closely defined working conditions, special training and a permit are allowed to carry a loaded gun in public places. The ownership of air-rifles is not regulated but carrying or firing them in public places is not permitted. A crossbow is paralleled to an air rifle in legal matters.

    To obtain a firearms license, an individual must declare a valid reason to own a gun. Acceptable reasons include hunting, sports or hobby shooting, profession related, show or promotion or exhibition, collection or museum, souvenir, and signalling. It is worth noticing that self- or home defence are not considered valid reasons. The applicant must provide evidence supporting the acquisition license application to prove that he or she is actually using firearms for the stated purpose(s). Such proof may consist of written declarations from other license holders as referees, shooting diaries or certificates from a shooting club.[2]



    For the life of me......with laws like this on the books, I can't figure out how something like this ever happened!
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."

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  5. #5
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
    To obtain a firearms license, an individual must declare a valid reason to own a gun.

    It is worth noticing that self- or home defence are not considered valid reasons.
    For the life of me......with laws like this on the books, I can't figure out how something like this ever happened!
    As is obvious to us, with laws like this on the books, it's patently clear it could not go any other way.

    For the lives of the Finns, the people and their politicians will need to square with the reality at some point. If the preservation of innocent life isn't a valid reason, they're already at the mercy of criminals. (Not unlike a few places in the U.S., based on the same rationale.)
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array JonInNY's Avatar
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    UPDATE

    At least nine dead in Finnish college shooting

    Police say the shooter was a student, no motive established
    Shooter tried to kill himself but was not successful, official said

    At least nine dead in Finnish college shooting - CNN.com
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch; Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
    -- Benjamin Franklin

  7. #7
    Member Array kohburn's Avatar
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    Acceptable reasons include:
    -hunting
    -sports or hobby shooting
    -souvenir

    but home defense is not an acceptable reason? this is some of the most backwards thinking i've ever seen.
    "An armed society is a polite society" - Robert A. Heinlein

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kohburn View Post
    but home defense is not an acceptable reason? this is some of the most backwards thinking i've ever seen.
    That's essentially the hurdle faced by everyone in a might-issue state, in the U.S. Amazing, that anyone could think preservation of innocent life doesn't qualify. Seems to me it's the entire point of the exercise.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array flagflyfish's Avatar
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    Suspected Gunman Was Questioned Before Shooting Massacre at Finnish School




    HELSINKI, Finland — A gunman opened fire at a vocational school for adults in western Finland on Tuesday before shooting himself, police said. Finnish media reported nine people were killed and the gunman died later at the hospital from his injuries.

    The shootings began just before 11 a.m. local time as about 150 students went to class in Kauhajoki, 180 miles northwest of Helsinki. Witnesses said panic broke out as the hooded gunman entered the school and began firing.

    "Within a short space of time I heard several dozen rounds of shots, in other words it was an automatic pistol," school janitor Jukka Forsberg told broadcaster YLE. "I saw some female students who were wailing and moaning and one managed to escape out of the back door."

    Finland's interior minister said the shooter was questioned by police a day before the massacre but released.

    Anne Holmlund says the gunman was detained for questioning on Monday about YouTube postings in which he is seen firing a handgun. She says police released him because they had no legal reason to keep him detained.

    She says the man used a 22-millimeter caliber handgun in Tuesday's attack. Holmlund says he got the license for the gun in August.


    Geez!!!! A automatic 22-millimeter handgun!!! That's gotta have some recoil!! I guess the media is screwy worldwide.
    "These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier
    and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the
    service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the
    love and thanks of man and woman."

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  10. #10
    Member Array Slabsides45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flagflyfish View Post

    Geez!!!! A automatic 22-millimeter handgun!!! That's gotta have some recoil!!

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array BkCo1's Avatar
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    Strict gun control works again. Lots of soft targets.

    Semper Fi

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flagflyfish View Post
    Suspected Gunman Was Questioned Before Shooting Massacre at Finnish School




    HELSINKI, Finland — A gunman opened fire at a vocational school for adults in western Finland on Tuesday before shooting himself, police said. Finnish media reported nine people were killed and the gunman died later at the hospital from his injuries.

    The shootings began just before 11 a.m. local time as about 150 students went to class in Kauhajoki, 180 miles northwest of Helsinki. Witnesses said panic broke out as the hooded gunman entered the school and began firing.

    "Within a short space of time I heard several dozen rounds of shots, in other words it was an automatic pistol," school janitor Jukka Forsberg told broadcaster YLE. "I saw some female students who were wailing and moaning and one managed to escape out of the back door."

    Finland's interior minister said the shooter was questioned by police a day before the massacre but released.

    Anne Holmlund says the gunman was detained for questioning on Monday about YouTube postings in which he is seen firing a handgun. She says police released him because they had no legal reason to keep him detained.

    She says the man used a 22-millimeter caliber handgun in Tuesday's attack. Holmlund says he got the license for the gun in August.


    Geez!!!! A automatic 22-millimeter handgun!!! That's gotta have some recoil!! I guess the media is screwy worldwide.
    Thats close to .88 Caliber. Wow thats big.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

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  13. #13
    Member Array uakaos's Avatar
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    I just read this story in my email a few min ago. Crazy!
    Released hours before he shot the place up. horrible
    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it."

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array rhinokrk's Avatar
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    A Sad Day for Finland

    "Finland deaths spark gun law call"

    link

    Finland's prime minister has called for gun laws to be tightened after a school shooting that left 11 people dead.

    Matti Vanhanen said he believed handguns should no longer be used outside shooting ranges.

    Matti Juhani Saari shot fellow students at a college in western Finland before turning his gun on himself.

    It emerged that he had been questioned by police after posting on the internet a video clip of himself at a shooting range, but had not been detained.

    Mr Vanhanen told Finnish television: "We have to tighten the law significantly.

    "In terms of handguns that can easily be carried about, we have to think about whether they should be available for private people. In my opinion, they belong on shooting ranges."

    Tuesday's shooting echoed another in November last year in the town of Tuusula, which left eight people and the lone gunman dead.

    Both gunmen had valid licences.

    Although Finland said it would consider new laws after that attack, no changes have been made and 15-year-olds can still own guns.

    The country has a long tradition of hunting and weapons-bearing, with about 1.6 million firearms in private hands - third in the world behind only the US and Yemen, studies say.

    Mr Vanhanen said: "The question is what kind of guns should be available with a licence. After these incidents, we have to discuss whether handguns should be legal."

    Questions will also be raised about the police handling of the case and the role of the internet.

    Saari, 22, was questioned on Monday but police said the videos "did not threaten anyone" directly.

    Mr Vanhanen said authorities would also look at whether there needed to be changes in internet monitoring.

    Matti Vanhanen
    Matti Vanhanen vowed to look at gun and internet laws

    He said: "The internet and YouTube forums... are not another planet. This is part of our world and we adults have the responsibility to check what is happening, and create borders and safety there."

    Saari posted several videos. One, which emerged on Tuesday, showed him saying to the camera "you will die next", followed by three gun shots.

    Police said they had found a note in Saari's flat explaining his actions.

    The head of the police investigation, Jari Neulaniemi, said: "In the note he said he hated mankind and the human race. And that he had been planning this since 2002."

    Mr Neulaniemi said nine victims were found in one classroom. Another was discovered injured in a corridor and later died in hospital.

    Saari shot himself in the head. He also died in hospital.

    The attack in Kauhajoki, some 330km (205 miles) north of the capital, Helsinki, started just before 1100 local time (0800 GMT).

    Saari, dressed in black and wearing a ski mask, was seen entering the building with a large bag.

    School caretaker Jukka Forsberg told AFP news agency that two girls had told him a man was shooting.

    "I saw a guy leaving a big black bag in the corridor and going into classroom number three and closing the door," he said.

    "I looked through the window and he immediately shot at me... Thank God I was not hit, he fired at me but I was running zigzag. I ran for my life."

    Mr Vanhanen has declared Wednesday a day of national mourning.
    Get the U.N. out of the U.S.
    Get the U.S. out of the U.N.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    It comes to this: a criminal willing to ignore laws against murder won't be fazed by a law regarding victim disarmament. Net result? Only the upstanding citizens will be disarmed.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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