Is the strongest reason for 2A is to protect against tyranny in Government?

Is the strongest reason for 2A is to protect against tyranny in Government?

This is a discussion on Is the strongest reason for 2A is to protect against tyranny in Government? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I have often heard it said that the authors of 2A believed the strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and ...

View Poll Results: The _______________ for 2A is to protect against tyranny in Government.

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  • weakest reason

    8 3.65%
  • somewhat important (but not weakest) reason

    10 4.57%
  • important (but not strongest) reason

    63 28.77%
  • strongest reason

    138 63.01%
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Thread: Is the strongest reason for 2A is to protect against tyranny in Government?

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Is the strongest reason for 2A is to protect against tyranny in Government?

    I have often heard it said that the authors of 2A believed the strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government.


  2. #2
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    Array Tangle's Avatar
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    That's the way I understand it - it sure isn't about hunting and sports.
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  3. #3
    Member Array kohburn's Avatar
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    my take is that is for defense of our rights (life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness) from any who would take them away from us - be them burgler, mugger, invading force, or government

    so the "tyrannical government" is only PART of the same and strongest reason
    "An armed society is a polite society" - Robert A. Heinlein

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by US Constitution Preamble
    We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
    The Bill of Rights are Amendments to the US Constitution. The First was written to make sure that certain rights were enumerated right off the bat. The Second Amendment was written as a 'Do-not-screw-with-our-rights' Fail-Safe. Now, having said that, I believe that it was written with the intent to prevent a tyrannical government from taking power. However, I also believe that it applies to any law-abiding American in the way that it provides, as stated in the Preamble of the US Constitution (above) that it is all provided for the common defense (among other reasons). To me? In my opinion? That means that any jerk or thug who thinks he can deprive another of their rights on their own whims may have to meet a citizen who staunchly supports the Second Amendment.

    Merriam-Webster's primary definition of 'government' is the following:
    1: the act or process of governing ; specifically : authoritative direction or control
    That means that anyone removing a persons ability to operate under the Rights granted by God (and some say the Federal Government) is supposing themselves on an individual as a governing force. IE: a tyrannical government.

    Right there, to me.. that is a legal justification for the Castle Doctrine as well as every other pro-self defense cause we fight for. Does it mean that we take arms against every person who might violate our Rights as Americans? That, my friends, is a totally different question. And I won't even try to tackle that one.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Array agentmel's Avatar
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    Another commonly accepted (by historians and economists) definition of government is that entity which exercises a territorial monopoly over the functions of ultimate jurisdiction and taxation. Both of these have far exceeded the Founders' limits on what the government was supposed to be able to do.

    So, while I have not yet ever been robbed by a common street criminal, I have been paying income taxes (unconstitutional) for many years now. Thus far the government has been the greatest threat to my liberty.

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  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    It used to be, but those were in the days when the civilians had the same armament as the military, heck, they were the military.

    Those were also the days when our founding fathers warned about the danger of a standing army.

    We're way passed the way things were supposed to be.
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  7. #7
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    I think that at the founding, it may have been the strongest reason. Today, it is the weakest reason. There is simply no way in our present world that individuals with civilian weapons could prevent tyranny.

    OTOH, individual with civilian weapons can protect themselves from street thugs.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    The founding fathers wrote it for that reason, but in this day and age I think we have a better possibility of being affected by BG. Not to mention there is no way we could prevent a tyrannical government from forming here, not enough people get off their butts to vote, who all would stand up and accept the death sentence of standing in front of the US Military when called to squash a domestic uprising?
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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  9. #9
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    When the language was written and placed into the Bill of rights, it was the strongest reason. We had just won a war against an empire that simply used the resources of the colonies without much regard for their standing.

    However today, you don't really stand much of a chance in using your weapons to overthrow the government if it becomes tyranical. You stand a much better chance of having the people whom would be called on to surpress the masses getting a case of reality and telling their superiors to stick it.

    Honestly if they country goes to hell in a hand basket, and they call for martial law nation wide or whatever. Tanks and personel carriers start rolling down the streets, which is more likely to prevail your personal arms, or the fact that the kid in the tank or manning the machine gun isn't going to shoot someone who looks like their mom, dad or sibling?

    I am betting on the latter of the two. God forbid if I am wrong. Other than that, we will be using them for the thug that tries to rape, rob or kill us or someone around us.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  10. #10
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    It is for self-defense, up to and even against a tyrannical government.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

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  11. #11
    Senior Member Array Free American's Avatar
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    As it was written I believe the strongest. Today, not so much anymore.
    They who give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin


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  12. #12
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by havegunjoe View Post
    It is for self-defense, up to and even against a tyrannical government.
    Bingo.

    The right to bear arms for what ever purpose be it to:

    * Hunt for purpose to clothe, feed, and provide means of shelter (animal skins, parts, and oils) for ones self and family;

    * Or to defend against tyranny ones self or family from physical harm;

    * Or to protect against tyranny ones residence/cave;

    * Or to protect & defend against tyranny ones property and/or livestock;

    * And/or to as is commonly stated but defintiely _not_ most importantly to defend ones self against a tyrannical government.

    All of the above are not rights afforded to us by the Bill of Rights and the Second Amendment in specific.
    These are all basic human rights. Rights that all human beings are born with to enjoy, and that are recognized as such by the Bill of Rights and specifically the Second Amendment.

    Unfortunately and very sadly many human beings around the globe do not value basic human rights. Or they see them as being dangerous to their own personal, professional, and/or political aspirations and goals. As well many human beings are born into circumstances of societal mores and/or governance that they are from the start programmed to believe they are in deed something less than human and/or not applicable toward the basic rights afforded to other humans because of their gender, creed, race,place of origin, intellect, physical appearance or abilities/inabilities, or quite simply because they are not fortunate enough to be born into wealth, power, prestige or some other artificial means of birth 'right'.

    The above basic human rights have been as such and recognized, with exclusion of governmental tyranny, since before there was such a thing as formalized government.
    In fact same holds true and continue to do so in nature amongst lower animals too. There is no licensing process for bears to carry their claws. No application process for bees to possess a stinger. No calls by environmentalists to remove the teeth from all biting fish, dogs, or cats for the purpose of 'safety' of all. Such a call would be deemed by most everyone but the insane to be the talk of a mad person. Even primates including apes, baboons, and monkeys of all sort when attempting to defend themselves will and do pickup what is at hand be it a rock, a stick, or dirt to throw and use in defense of themselves or others amongst them and their own. This is normal behavior. It is natural to do so. Even when and where there is no 'government' muchless tyranny of as much.

    Tyranny of government is about the last thing on a persons mind toward the right to bear arms even in countries where government is tyrannical. Where there is tyranny there is always prey and predators. Human history to present shows that primary focus amongst tyranny is safety in the immediate. Am I an my family able to survive for the next minute. After that comes concern for government if any and it's actions if applicable.

    - Humanity
    Last edited by Janq; September 23rd, 2008 at 08:49 PM.
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  13. #13
    wpk
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    I'm still fairly new to the gun culture, but I don't see our government being efficient enough to try and become tyrannical to the point where my small arms would make a difference. This is the government that doesn't even show up to work half the year and pretty much has no idea what the individual is up to, nor do they care so long as the taxes come in.


    My gun is to keep me safe from bad guys, I'm not too worried about the beaurocrats. Well, I am worried about the beurocrats , but not the point of armed response.
    "America is a nation of laws; poorly written and randomly enforced." -Frank Zappa

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  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    wpk,

    Don't sleep on the government and what it can do.

    Check your American history national and regional and state and at even the town level. American government is nothing more than a group of three people minimum who 'vote' and by tht decide to 'agree' on what's best for you, yours, and me.
    Citizens defending themselves against tyranny of American government and it's officers, agents, operations, and policies has occurred a multiple of times through our history dating from 1776 forward though the Trail of Tears to WWII internment camps to the not so long ago Hurricane Katrina ball drop debacle.
    Many Americans have suffered and in the process of as much have been disarmed by our government.

    Do not underestimate those who you task to represent your interests, and do not forget history.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    1) Don't ever believe that we as a society are outgunned; if our government ever became tyrannical in nature, just remember there are at least 25 million hard core gun owners out there. Our current full-time military strength is less than 1.5 milliion. I am willing to bet that most of those folks would not go along with their governments' plans. Especially if our government turned on its citizens and began shooting them.

    2) Also remember that a ragtag army of guys in Afghanistan with WWI era weapons (bolt-action 303 Enfields, etc) and an unshakeable resolve defeated one of the 2 superpowers (The Soviet Union) of the cold war back in the 1980's.......If it can happen there, it can happen anywhere.

    And finally, remember that the 2nd amendment isn't just about hunting or even self defense or Liberty's teeth.

    It validates and enforces the Bill of Rights. Without it, our rights would have been diluted and legislated away a long time ago.....
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

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