2nd Amendment and Aliens (earthbound type)

This is a discussion on 2nd Amendment and Aliens (earthbound type) within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by PaulJ In Florida, legal resident aliens (= green card) can get a CWL. There are a couple different "classes" of aliens: - ...

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Thread: 2nd Amendment and Aliens (earthbound type)

  1. #16
    New Member Array casinoeye702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulJ View Post
    In Florida, legal resident aliens (= green card) can get a CWL.

    There are a couple different "classes" of aliens:
    - illegal aliens: in the country without any kind of valid visa
    - non immigrant aliens: in the country for a short time, no declared intend to stay permanently (tourists, students, temporary workers).
    - immigrant aliens: aliens that declared to stay permanently (either they applied for a green card, or obtained one).


    There are very few laws that distinguish between citizens and resident aliens. For example the right to vote, hold a US passport and such. But almost anything else is equal. Resident aliens pay the same taxes as citizens and share most of the rights.

    The constitution applies to citizens as well as non citizens. It usually distinguishes between "the people" (= everybody) and "citizens of the United States". the second amendment talks about "the people", not "citizens of the United States".
    That is the most politically correct answer here.
    In NV, gun store will ask for Green Card, 3 months of utility bills to verify the residency.

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    This discussion came up in another thread as a result of my pointing out that in WA State resident (legal) aliens are allowed to get a concealed handgun permit. But they must first get an alien firearms license (which allows them to possess a firearm). Without the license, you cannot even possess a gun, much less carry one concealed.

    At issue in our State (and what caused the NRA to sue the State this month), is that the State will not issue or renew an alien firearms license. They do so because the FBI will not share background check information with non LE departments, and our State issues these licenses through the Department of Licensing without the involvement of LE. As a result, they have administratively prohibited legal aliens from possessing, or carrying firearms in our State.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array ronwill's Avatar
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    In Georgia, under Georgia code 16-11-129, anyone legally in the U.S. can get a Georgia Firearms License. This is shown in the following subsection:

    (3) When a person who is not a United States citizen applies for a license or renewal of a license under this Code section, the judge of the probate court shall direct the law enforcement agency to conduct a search of the records maintained by the United States Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement. As a condition to the issuance of a license or the renewal of a license, an applicant who is in nonimmigrant status shall provide proof of his or her qualifications for an exception to the federal firearm prohibition pursuant to 18 U.S.C. Section 922(y).
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  5. #19
    New Member Array bobbocow's Avatar
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    Hello from Oregon

    My first post.....
    I am "Legal Permanent Resident" i.e. Green Card holder, and am currently in the process of applying for my concealed handgun permit.

    I think some of the confusion comes from the terminology used. But I can assure you that a "Green Card" is utterly and completely different from any other kind of "alien" status. I have been checked, double-checked, probed by the FBI, the Secret Service, Homeland Security, fingerprinted multiple times, and if I so much as fart in the wrong direction I'll have my status revoked.

    Why have I put up with all of this? That's simple -- because I LOVE this country. The very idea that here, in America, self-defense is "allowed" is so profound to me that I get up every morning with a smile.

    Where I came from, if I even conjure up the image of a gun, a well-meaning, fair and polite jack-booted thug in a trench coat will arrive at my door and ransack my house.

    Sorry about the rant, but for me the Second Amenment IS America. It's the main thing that makes the country so interesting. The very concept that all people have this right just blows me away. All people -- not just full-fledged members of the secret club. It's the reason I'm here for sure.

  6. #20
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    Cant argue with that...
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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  7. #21
    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
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    The only thing that I can think of as being "against" this would be a brand new immigrant, since they wouldn't have any criminal background even if they did in their country of origin. But I'd say a simple residency requirement is enough for that.

    Other than that I think anyone who is here legally has a right to self-defense along with the rest of us. Remember that when the Constitution was written and this country born, nearly everyone was an immigrant, or a child of an immigrant... this country was founded on immigration.

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    In Missouri, an LPR can purchase a gun.

    But they are prohibited from obtaining a CCW endorsement.

    U.S. citizens only.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbocow View Post
    I have been checked, double-checked, probed by the FBI, the Secret Service, Homeland Security, fingerprinted multiple times, and if I so much as fart in the wrong direction I'll have my status revoked.
    The Secret Service???

  10. #24
    Member Array hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbocow View Post
    My first post.....
    I am "Legal Permanent Resident" i.e. Green Card holder, and am currently in the process of applying for my concealed handgun permit.

    I think some of the confusion comes from the terminology used. But I can assure you that a "Green Card" is utterly and completely different from any other kind of "alien" status. I have been checked, double-checked, probed by the FBI, the Secret Service, Homeland Security, fingerprinted multiple times, and if I so much as fart in the wrong direction I'll have my status revoked.

    Why have I put up with all of this? That's simple -- because I LOVE this country. The very idea that here, in America, self-defense is "allowed" is so profound to me that I get up every morning with a smile.

    Where I came from, if I even conjure up the image of a gun, a well-meaning, fair and polite jack-booted thug in a trench coat will arrive at my door and ransack my house.

    Sorry about the rant, but for me the Second Amenment IS America. It's the main thing that makes the country so interesting. The very concept that all people have this right just blows me away. All people -- not just full-fledged members of the secret club. It's the reason I'm here for sure.
    it takes longer to get what you buy for permanent residents, 5 to 7 days so I heard; and in my state cant get a ccw, even thou they do super check them like stated.

    damn right %90 of legal permanent residents that I know are as american as a colt peacemaker, the remaining % are as american as most americans now
    NO 3rd party disputes

    The power of imagination is the key to life.

    It helps you think ahead, consider the possibilities,and prepare you for the future.
    If you lack that ability, you're no different from livestock trapped behind a fence.

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbocow View Post
    My first post.....
    I am "Legal Permanent Resident" i.e. Green Card holder, and am currently in the process of applying for my concealed handgun permit.

    I think some of the confusion comes from the terminology used. But I can assure you that a "Green Card" is utterly and completely different from any other kind of "alien" status. I have been checked, double-checked, probed by the FBI, the Secret Service, Homeland Security, fingerprinted multiple times, and if I so much as fart in the wrong direction I'll have my status revoked.

    Why have I put up with all of this? That's simple -- because I LOVE this country. The very idea that here, in America, self-defense is "allowed" is so profound to me that I get up every morning with a smile.

    Where I came from, if I even conjure up the image of a gun, a well-meaning, fair and polite jack-booted thug in a trench coat will arrive at my door and ransack my house.

    Sorry about the rant, but for me the Second Amenment IS America. It's the main thing that makes the country so interesting. The very concept that all people have this right just blows me away. All people -- not just full-fledged members of the secret club. It's the reason I'm here for sure.
    Nice post! Well said.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  12. #26
    Ex Member Array DOGOFWAR01's Avatar
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    Yes, Second Amendment for Citizens only, the same way it was when our Founding Fathers wrote the Second Amendment, Bill of Rights, and U.S. Constitution.

    if cannot vote then cannot own or have or carry or whatever with firearms except hunt with a licensed guide - guide furnishes firearm and ammo - guide is responsible for the person. firearm, and ammo
    Last edited by JD; December 31st, 2008 at 10:59 AM. Reason: Merged posts.

  13. #27
    New Member Array bobbocow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOGOFWAR01 View Post
    Yes, Second Amendment for Citizens only, the same way it was when our Founding Fathers wrote the Second Amendment, Bill of Rights, and U.S. Constitution.

    if cannot vote then cannot own or have or carry or whatever with firearms except hunt with a licensed guide - guide furnishes firearm and ammo - guide is responsible for the person. firearm, and ammo
    Don't worry DOG, the sherriff made it quite clear that I wouldn't be getting a "real" CCW.

    There are different rules: I can't own an
    American-made gun or anything designed by John Moses Browning, and I can't use any caliber starting with a "4". And, if I'm attacked, even in my own house, I'm only allowed to defend myself, my family, and any American-born guests if the BG is another foreigner.

    So it all works out!

  14. #28
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    Dor my wife is a permanent resident and not a US citizen and she can vote, in local elections. She pays taxes and probably knows more about the US Constitution and Goverment than 95% of natural born citizens.

    We can she not have the ability to protect herself.

    And to pual34, you have to have a criminal background check done before you apply for your green card which can take up to 3 years or longer to get.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  15. #29
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    There are some interesting dimensions to this discussion that aren't being hit upon.

    It could well be that denying a license to a lawful permanent resident is a violation of their rights, and discrimination based on national origin.

    A permanent resident is quite a different type of individual than someone on a work or student visa or a tourist visa. Employers, for example, may not deny them employment based on their lack of citizenship-- the exception of course is Federal Employment, or the rare private job in which a security clearance is needed. They can certainly join the military, and have been drafted routinely in the past-- sometimes within days of their arrival.

    I think it is illegal even for a police departments to use lack of US citizenship in hiring decisions, and thus these "laws" prohibiting non-citizens from getting a chl may be quite improper. I'm going to guess that they have simply not been adequately challenged. They should be, and should be overturned.

    Folks, please keep in mind that a permanent resident, can enter and reenter the country, move about freely, take employment, sue and be sued.

    There are very few things a Green Card holder (lawful permanent resident) can not do; and these are fairly well limited to Federal Employment, voting, a jury service.

    Sometimes, states pass laws that are clearly in conflict with Federal law, and for whatever reason, these don't get challenged and overturned. These prohibitions against permanent residents sound like they fall in that category.

  16. #30
    Member Array hybrid's Avatar
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    I think those activist idiots have propagandize ILLEGALS as Immigrants etc... so much that some people cant tell the difference.

    I think it infuriates permanent residents, people that follow the long process, time and money (above all the LAW) to come to this country then the activists bundle them as part of their hate america crap.

    another group with their hidden socialist/communist agenda.
    NO 3rd party disputes

    The power of imagination is the key to life.

    It helps you think ahead, consider the possibilities,and prepare you for the future.
    If you lack that ability, you're no different from livestock trapped behind a fence.

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