2nd Amendment and Aliens (earthbound type)

2nd Amendment and Aliens (earthbound type)

This is a discussion on 2nd Amendment and Aliens (earthbound type) within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; continued from here Originally Posted by diesel556 No, you misunderstood me. I was agreeing that those who are against equal treatment need to ask themselves ...

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    2nd Amendment and Aliens (earthbound type)

    continued from here


    Quote Originally Posted by diesel556 View Post
    No, you misunderstood me. I was agreeing that those who are against equal treatment need to ask themselves your question. I wasn't attempting to answer it myself.
    Oh, Ok. Sorry.


    Quote Originally Posted by diesel556 View Post
    When have any of us needed to submit to a criminal background check as a condition for civil rights?
    Only when buying a gun, or when I joined the army, or applied for a police job, or applied for a security job.

    On another note. It just seems to me, that anyone should be able to OC in any state, regardless of Citizenshp status, as long as,

    A.) The state does not infringe on our rights, such as some of those states that do not allow OC. (As well as those that do not allow CC) and

    B.) They are in this country legally.


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    If the "aliens" are here legally, have citizenship, and have a legitimate background check, I do not see how I can deny them CCW. I may not like the sound of it, but legally it is what it is. Now if any one of the above is a NO, then the CCL should be NO as well.

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    If they have"citizenship" then they are no longer aliens. They are citizens and thus entitled to all the rights thereof.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    Senior Member Array Al Lowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    If they have"citizenship" then they are no longer aliens. They are citizens and thus entitled to all the rights thereof.
    So, if they're resident legal aliens, they have no rights?

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    Resident legal aliens dont get Concealed Handgun Permits.

    I get asked about it all the time. In Arkansas you must be a U.S. citizen. Dont know about other states.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    In Alabama it is up to the issuing Sheriff. In Elmore County a permenat resident Alien can not get a CCW in Morgan County you could at one time, they have a new Sheriff and I don't know if he changed the rules.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

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    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    I would imagine the declaration of independence should be considered as well as the Constitution...

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness

    We take from this that "all Men" being everyone is entitled to rights by birth. Including the right to defend themselves where ever they may be and no matter their status of nationality. It should be assumed that if they are here legally then they are given these rights and they should be respected. At least thats my thoughts on it. Its not something we can just simply say and not adhere to because it is the basis on which we all stand in this country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Resident legal aliens dont get Concealed Handgun Permits.

    I get asked about it all the time. In Arkansas you must be a U.S. citizen. Dont know about other states.
    Ditto in OK as well a many states.

    What one thinks about rights and what the law says...whether state or federal...sometimes have little in common. But there are lots of ways for SD besides a gun...so denying a right...one that can be argued till the cows come home.

    Rick

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    We take from this that "all Men" being everyone is entitled to rights by birth. Including the right to defend themselves where ever they may be and no matter their status of nationality. It should be assumed that if they are here legally then they are given these rights and they should be respected. At least thats my thoughts on it. Its not something we can just simply say and not adhere to because it is the basis on which we all stand in this country.

    You are partly correct.
    Fact of the matter is they are entiteld to the rights given to them by the Creator.

    Unfortunatley the Federal Government and lots of state governments dont see it that way and they grant or exclude rights based on citizenship.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    here anyone can OC but only citizens can get a license, I think it just got changed a while ago.
    NO 3rd party disputes

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    In VA a legal alien is able to get a CHP, as it should be. If they are an illegal alien they are prohibited by state law, as well as federal law prohibiting them for purchasing a weapon. I have no problem with a legal alien owning a weapon and having a carry permit. I DO have a problem with illegal doing it. JMO, any illegal alien caught, should immediately be deported back to their home country, no questions asked.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    ....JMO, any illegal alien caught, should immediately be deported back to their home country, no questions asked.
    I am with you, but that' another post!

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    You are partly correct.
    Fact of the matter is they are entiteld to the rights given to them by the Creator.

    Unfortunatley the Federal Government and lots of state governments dont see it that way and they grant or exclude rights based on citizenship.
    Just because they do it, does not make it correct.

    In fact it was incorrect to allow slavery. But yet for years they did. Just as it is incorrect for states and federal government to deny basic rights of any kind to law abiding residents of our country. Citizens or not. We didn't found this country with the basic idea that only citizens had rights. We founded it on the basis that All men had those rights.

    Again... as I stated before... if we truly believe what our country was founded upon, we would not deny these rights to legal aliens.

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    Just because they do it, does not make it correct.
    You're right.
    That is the way it is though...
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    In Florida, legal resident aliens (= green card) can get a CWL.

    There are a couple different "classes" of aliens:
    - illegal aliens: in the country without any kind of valid visa
    - non immigrant aliens: in the country for a short time, no declared intend to stay permanently (tourists, students, temporary workers).
    - immigrant aliens: aliens that declared to stay permanently (either they applied for a green card, or obtained one).


    There are very few laws that distinguish between citizens and resident aliens. For example the right to vote, hold a US passport and such. But almost anything else is equal. Resident aliens pay the same taxes as citizens and share most of the rights.

    The constitution applies to citizens as well as non citizens. It usually distinguishes between "the people" (= everybody) and "citizens of the United States". the second amendment talks about "the people", not "citizens of the United States".
    I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. (Thomas Jefferson)

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