Will our 2nd Amendment rights survive....

This is a discussion on Will our 2nd Amendment rights survive.... within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Self Defense, Who cares what I think about their methods? The Constitution has been dead since the first shot was fired at Fort Sumter. The ...

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Thread: Will our 2nd Amendment rights survive....

  1. #46
    Member Array socal2310's Avatar
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    Self Defense,

    Who cares what I think about their methods? The Constitution has been dead since the first shot was fired at Fort Sumter. The south would have destroyed it by leaving the union and Lincoln destroyed it in his quest to preserve the union.

    Ryan

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  3. #47
    Senior Member Array rljohns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by socal2310 View Post
    Self Defense,

    Who cares what I think about their methods? The Constitution has been dead since the first shot was fired at Fort Sumter. The south would have destroyed it by leaving the union and Lincoln destroyed it in his quest to preserve the union.

    Ryan
    So very true. The presidents that we list as the greatest in many ppl eyes did the most damage to the Constitution. To name a few, Lincoln, Wilson, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, even Jackson was willing to trample the Constitution to save the Union.

  4. #48
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    Sorry guys but you are suffering from Wishful Thinking which is funny in a forum that is so heavy in not believing in the "It won't happen to me" mentality.

    I am not planning on depending on their good intentions or political shrewdness towards a second administration. I am planning on be prepared and make a fight to make sure they do not go down the evil path by raising as much hell as possible.
    I have to agree to a point here, but the other funny part is those that do the mass hysteria thing before it's become a reality, there is a middle ground where you take action, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water mentallity also. Would you agree?
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  5. #49
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by socal2310 View Post
    Self Defense,

    Who cares what I think about their methods? The Constitution has been dead since the first shot was fired at Fort Sumter. The south would have destroyed it by leaving the union and Lincoln destroyed it in his quest to preserve the union.

    Ryan
    I must say that if that is true, then what are we doing here speaking, freedom of speech would be gone, freedom of everything would be gone, the Constitution is not dead, it's been abused in my view, it's been taken out of context by some, but long from dead. We could go over it and see what is dead about certain segments of it, but to throw the death switch on it is a little premature don't you think?
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  6. #50
    Distinguished Member Array sniper58's Avatar
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    If we do get a Con-Con, the entire Constitution (as it reads now), including 2A is gone. Some idiot in Congress recently commented on the fact that about 5 states that are currently in the list of 32 pushing for a Con-Con cannot withdraw the original legislation. Personally, I don't see it happening. But then again, I never thought the lunacy in Washington would reach this level in my lifetime either. Pray for the best and prepare for the worst.
    Tim
    BE PREPARED - Noah didn't build the Ark when it was raining!
    Si vis pacem, para bellum
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  7. #51
    Member Array concealed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guardian View Post
    I have to agree to a point here, but the other funny part is those that do the mass hysteria thing before it's become a reality, there is a middle ground where you take action, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water mentallity also. Would you agree?
    I would!

  8. #52
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Check's and balances are a thing of the past. No, the 2nd Amendment will probably never be rescinded in any of our lifetimes, but the different administrations can do pretty much whatever they want.

    An administration under the federal government cannot be appealed in the judicial system because they do not have jurisdiction. The legislature can help to define that administrations purposes, but while they are required to do so very narrowly, they end up defining it very broadly.

    Administrative Law and the broad outreach and usurping of powers that administrations are capable of and, are indeed performing will regulate the 2nd amendment and a free America to the history books.

    When Disney is sighting OSHA regs for prohibiting firearms on their property because OSHA prohibits allowing something that is known to be dangerous around employees, I would say that we've past the slippery slope and are on our way over the cliff.

    As SD will gladly admit, the Judicial System has usurped their powers in unprecedented ways. The Executive Branch has usurped it's powers in unprecedented ways, and for good measure, the Legislature has interpreted 'for the common good' from Article 1 Section 8, to mean just about whatever they think is good for the country.

    The sky may not be falling, but the U.S. I grew up in is a heck of a lot different than the one my kids are going to grow up in.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  9. #53
    Member Array socal2310's Avatar
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    Guardian,

    When I say that the Constitution is dead, I mean that it no longer serves its original purpose of restraining the government and resolving disputes between States.

    It's like saying Arnold Schwarzenegger isn't a Republican. In the objective sense that his official affiliation is Republican then that is false. In another sense: that he is a RINO, then it's true.

    The Constitution is still recognized as the law of the land, but its meaning has been so tortured by precedent that by now we need activist judges to return us to original intent.

    If states rights are for all intents and purposes dead and gone, I'll not say no to individual rights in return.

    Ryan

  10. #54
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Yes, most likely the clock will run out, and 2A will be strong. Some changes are possible, but nothing major in the first 4 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I think there will be no change from the present situation. AWB won't pass and most of the tough control issues really happen at the state level--think about CA, MD, IL, NY, WI. The problems in those states for CC have nothing whatsoever to do with the Federal government and everything to do with local and state politics...
    +1 concerning CC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puppy View Post
    But Obama will probably appoint the next Supreme court judges and the court barely supported guns right by one vote on the D.C. issue. One change in Judges is all they need to rape us.
    What judges? The judges likely to be appoint by Obama in the next 4 years would not change the overall vote. They would replace anti-gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    ...If we have a total economic collapse and the dollar becomes as worthless as the paper it is printed on, it wont matter who is "prez". Then the Second Amendment will be put to the test in a way that it has never seen before on the local,state and federal level.
    +1

    There are some likely events, and other less likely events, that can become a catalyst for rapid changes regarding 2A. Everyone should acknowledge this possibility.

    Who disagrees with that?

    However, Hotguns statement is well worded, given the hypothetical, "...the Second Amendment will be put to the test in a way that it has never seen before on the local,state and federal level."

    The coin could flip either direction. If the, "...dollar becomes...worthless..." there is a possibility 2A will be put to use by a greater number of citizens.

    Who disagrees with that?

  11. #55
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by socal2310 View Post
    Guardian,

    When I say that the Constitution is dead, I mean that it no longer serves its original purpose of restraining the government and resolving disputes between States.

    It's like saying Arnold Schwarzenegger isn't a Republican. In the objective sense that his official affiliation is Republican then that is false. In another sense: that he is a RINO, then it's true.

    The Constitution is still recognized as the law of the land, but its meaning has been so tortured by precedent that by now we need activist judges to return us to original intent.

    If states rights are for all intents and purposes dead and gone, I'll not say no to individual rights in return.

    Ryan
    Ryan - You must forgive me, being new, I am still not use to what everyone means what they say here, I still am reading it as what is stated, not the intended meaning by the individual writing. I'm starting to get a glimmer of the differently personalities here and what they actually mean when they write, a little more time and I'll be there.

    Thanks for the clarification.


    Thanis - Last paragraph - Economical collaspe - 2A becoming even more important, I agree.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  12. #56
    Member Array socal2310's Avatar
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    Guardian,

    No problem. I'm a member of another board that has quite a few cross-members with this one and you ought to have seen the pile of poo I stepped into with my first post .

    I'm a paleo-libertarian but I'm in a university atmosphere on the Left coast and I spend more time trying to communicate with liberals than conservatives . It shows .

    Ryan

  13. #57
    Member Array Kyle007's Avatar
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    I believe they will.
    There is no honor among theives.

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  14. #58
    Distinguished Member Array Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siafu View Post
    I was watching C-Span the other day and they were grilling the nomination for USAG Eric Holder by Senator Patrick Leahy (D) Vermont. Specifically, he was asked if he would seek to tamper with the private right of gun ownership and Holder is on the record as saying that he respects the findings of the SCOTUS and has no plans to bring change in that area. That said, The question was asked and answered rather quickly and his answer was vague in the sense that it did not speak to any particular types of firearms.

    While I dont think that the issue ranks high on the priority list of the incoming administration I do think that the AWB will be re-introduced at some time in the future.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

    Looks like the joke is on all us.

    Did you happen to see AG Eric Holder on Lou Dobbs tonight?

    He said he wants to ban AW and take care of some other gun issues as well.
    Why Ike, whatever do you mean? Maybe poker's just not your game Ike. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!

  15. #59
    Member Array concealed's Avatar
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    They may survive this attack, but more are coming. I believe our right to carry will eventually be removed.
    Men look out for themselves; real men look out for others!

  16. #60
    Member Array Tigrebleau's Avatar
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    If we don't kiill HR-45, it will kill us, or at least the 2A. Reading the bill kind of makes a joke of all the "don't worry about it" posts in this thread.

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