Everyone needs to read this! This is how it's done.

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Thread: Everyone needs to read this! This is how it's done.

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array XD in SC's Avatar
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    (5) A concealed firearm may be carried without a permit unless used
    to commit a criminal offense; and
    I didn't read it all, just the cliffs....

    I don't agree with this. Sorry gang, but I do think... people that are legally carrying concealed should be able to be identified by LEO as "law abiding". The way this is stated anyone can legally carry concealed unless they use it to commit a crime. So a BG that just committed a murder and has run away, with no one being able to provide a description, can legally put the gun in his waistband or pocket and walk down the street with the sheeple. When LEO approaches for whatever reason, the BG will think it's for the crime previously committed, and just come up shooting. Bang, one dead LEO.

    I don't like this part at all. Yes I know it happens anyway, but it shouldn't give the BG a loop hole.
    Sean
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    "You may know where you are. God may know where you are. If you don't tell your dispatcher where you are, you'd better be on speaking terms with God!"

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  3. #32
    Member Array socal2310's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD in SC View Post
    I didn't read it all, just the cliffs....

    I don't agree with this. Sorry gang, but I do think... people that are legally carrying concealed should be able to be identified by LEO as "law abiding". The way this is stated anyone can legally carry concealed unless they use it to commit a crime. So a BG that just committed a murder and has run away, with no one being able to provide a description, can legally put the gun in his waistband or pocket and walk down the street with the sheeple. When LEO approaches for whatever reason, the BG will think it's for the crime previously committed, and just come up shooting. Bang, one dead LEO.

    I don't like this part at all. Yes I know it happens anyway, but it shouldn't give the BG a loop hole.
    It doesn't give the bad guy a loophole, he's going to carry anyway. I don't understand how normal, rational people can tell anti's that criminals don't obey laws and then turn around and make comments like yours. Chances are, if the law is passed, your average potential cop killer won't even be aware of the change in the law. In fact, I can only conclude based on a lot of news articles I've read that many criminals are ignorant that there is a legal provision for carrying a firearm. Even in states where such permits are common.

    Ryan
    Those who will not govern their own behavior are slaves waiting for a master; one will surely find them.

  4. #33
    Senior Member Array XD in SC's Avatar
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    Do not think that these common thugs are stupid or totally uneducated. They may act the part, but be sure that if the law says that anyone can carry a gun without a permit then they will take full advantage of the law in court.

    Dope dealers have learned that if they sell dope within 1 mile of a school, their penalties are much harder. SO now they make certain they do not deal within that proximity. They aren't stupid. They know how to play the game. They play the game well, that's why they are still on the streets. They know when to roll over, and when to shut up.

    There is no way to stop criminals from getting and carrying guns, but if the law says that everyone can carry without a permit, then there are no bad guys until the gun is used in a crime, and the suspect is identified.

    I would rather see a law that stated something to the effect of.... a National Permit would be offered to those that have passed a background and criminal investigation. It would allow carry anywhere other than Federal Buildings, courthouses, jails, etc. And would have easily verifiable information for LEO.

    It won't happen, but I still think it's better than everyone carrying without a permit. The FBI couldn't possibly keep up with, or handle the workload, and the CIA is too busy being scolded by the new President. Sorry, it's just the way I feel. You don't have to like it.
    Sean
    XD 9SC | XD 45ACP Service | XD 45ACP Compact |Borealis
    "You may know where you are. God may know where you are. If you don't tell your dispatcher where you are, you'd better be on speaking terms with God!"

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jensen47770 View Post
    Oh yeah, this is great! I wish CA would come up with something like this.
    Cali's had a state lullaby for years, now. It's called the budget.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  6. #35
    Member Array Darth AkSarBen's Avatar
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    How come Vermont and Alaska don't have the issues stated with concealed carry by anyone, with criminal encounters of the worst kind with LEOs? It won't stop criminals from carrying guns, but it also will give criminals a bit more to think about as they "think" about assaulting, robbing, victimizing a citizen who, in good probability, might be now armed because the playing field has been leveled. Sauce for the goose.
    Vern
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  7. #36
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    Update




    A public hearing was held in the House Judiciary Committee for HB228 and HB246 on Thursday, 22 January. Sections 6 and 9 were dropped from HB228, HB246 was left unchanged.

    Both bills are scheduled for further consideration by the Judiciary Committee sometime this week. They're not ready for a full House vote yet.

    Stay tuned...


    When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
    And go to your God like a soldier.

    Rudyard Kipling


    Terry

  8. #37
    Member Array socal2310's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Crunch View Post



    A public hearing was held in the House Judiciary Committee for HB228 and HB246 on Thursday, 22 January. Sections 6 and 9 were dropped from HB228, HB246 was left unchanged.

    Both bills are scheduled for further consideration by the Judiciary Committee sometime this week. They're not ready for a full House vote yet.

    Stay tuned...
    They've already updated the website. Was section 6 the provision for using deadly force while making a citizen's arrest? What was section 9?

    Thanks,
    Ryan
    Those who will not govern their own behavior are slaves waiting for a master; one will surely find them.

  9. #38
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    Section 6 was "conditions for seizure of firearm."

    Section 9 was "employer prohibition of means of self defense."


    When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
    And go to your God like a soldier.

    Rudyard Kipling


    Terry

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD in SC View Post
    Do not think that these common thugs are stupid or totally uneducated. They may act the part, but be sure that if the law says that anyone can carry a gun without a permit then they will take full advantage of the law in court.

    Dope dealers have learned that if they sell dope within 1 mile of a school, their penalties are much harder. SO now they make certain they do not deal within that proximity. They aren't stupid. They know how to play the game. They play the game well, that's why they are still on the streets. They know when to roll over, and when to shut up.

    There is no way to stop criminals from getting and carrying guns, but if the law says that everyone can carry without a permit, then there are no bad guys until the gun is used in a crime, and the suspect is identified.

    I would rather see a law that stated something to the effect of.... a National Permit would be offered to those that have passed a background and criminal investigation. It would allow carry anywhere other than Federal Buildings, courthouses, jails, etc. And would have easily verifiable information for LEO.

    It won't happen, but I still think it's better than everyone carrying without a permit. The FBI couldn't possibly keep up with, or handle the workload, and the CIA is too busy being scolded by the new President. Sorry, it's just the way I feel. You don't have to like it.

    Sorry to step on what another "XDer" has to say, but where in the phrase "shall not be infringed" do you find room for what you say? I guarantee you that if the founding fathers--and especially the authors of the BoR--had ever been told that they had to obtain a permit to carry their weapons, concealed or otherwise, they would have re-started the rebellion.

  11. #40
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    Update

    HB228 cleared the House Judiciary Committee yesterday with more amendments. Section 5 was dropped from the bill.

    Senate votes in support for deadly force in home
    By MATT GOURAS Associated Press


    HELENA - The Senate overwhelmingly endorsed a plan Friday that clarifies Montanans have no obligation to retreat before using deadly force to protect their homes.

    Supporters said the so-called “castle doctrine” legislation is needed to make sure the law is clear on the issue. They said Montanans already understand that it is legal to shoot intruders, and lawmakers need to make sure law specifically reflects that notion.

    “It does one thing and one thing only: It says you don't have to retreat in an occupied structure when you have the right to use deadly force,” said Sen. Larry Jent, D-Bozeman. “You shouldn't have to run when your life is threatened.”
    *
    That bill has the blessing of police and prosecutors.

    Another bill goes a step further. It states Montanans have no obligation to retreat anywhere - in their home or elsewhere - before using deadly force in the face of a threat. It is more controversial with police.

    This is HB228

    It was pushed out of a House committee Friday on a 10-8 vote, and will face more scrutiny as it advances. The House Judiciary Committee is also waiting to take action on a version of the “castle doctrine” similar to Jent's bill, which has cruised through the Senate.

    Three Democrats did vote against Jent's bill.

    Sen. Christine Kaufmann, D-Helena, said that loaded guns in homes cause more problems than they solve. She also said the “powerful gun lobby” bullies lawmakers into such legislation.

    “I am troubled by the way we are all pressed not to have reasonable debate on the issue,” she said, noting one gun group gave her an F- rating before she even had a legislative record. “That score will likely be continued now that I have stood up and made these comments.”

    The bills are Senate Bill 92 and House Bill 228.


    When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
    And go to your God like a soldier.

    Rudyard Kipling


    Terry

  12. #41
    Member Array Darth AkSarBen's Avatar
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    I wish they had not dropped section 5.
    Vern
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    My wesbsite with many pro-gun links.
    Carry Taurus 24/7 Pro in .45 ACP

  13. #42
    Distinguished Member Array P7fanatic's Avatar
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    Cool

    Here they are:

    HOUSE BILL NO. 228 (w/ revisions)
    http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/2009/BillPDF/HB0228.pdf

    HOUSE BILL NO. 246
    http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/2009/billhtml/HB0246.htm



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  14. #43
    Member Array Darth AkSarBen's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting them. I managed to download and look at the bills. I even sent Krayton Kearns (sponsor) an email concerning HB228 and it's wording, plus possible revsions to clear the air on it a bit.
    Good stuff.
    Vern
    http://Taurus45ACP.com
    My wesbsite with many pro-gun links.
    Carry Taurus 24/7 Pro in .45 ACP

  15. #44
    Senior Member Array agentmel's Avatar
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    It's really too bad that Montana, Texas, and Florida don't border each other. We could have the possibility of creating an actual free society if they did. Oh well...

    Mel

    Quote Originally Posted by XD in SC View Post
    I didn't read it all, just the cliffs....

    I don't agree with this. Sorry gang, but I do think... people that are legally carrying concealed should be able to be identified by LEO as "law abiding".
    Oh well, so much for the presumption of innocence. So, now we have to prove that we're law abiding?

    Mel
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  16. #45
    Member Array Darth AkSarBen's Avatar
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    Anyone who is carrying is "law abiding" according to the Second Amendment. As a former Deputy, I never questioned anyone unless there were probable cause to believe that there had been some breaking of the law. Anyone carrying concealed, with no intent of crimnal behavior, should be left alone. Once they are stopped, an officer will note on their drivers license a name and date of birth, and a quick check will tell that officer if they are wanted for any outstanding warrants. If they are criminals, and are carrying concealed, you think they are about to announce to the officer that they are criminals and are carrying concealed?

    No, people that are carrying concealed should NOT be required to be identified by LEO as "law abiding" as they either are or they are not. If they are not, then what good is the requirement of the permit (that they won't get or honor)?
    Vern
    http://Taurus45ACP.com
    My wesbsite with many pro-gun links.
    Carry Taurus 24/7 Pro in .45 ACP

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