2A and Obama:my thoughts

This is a discussion on 2A and Obama:my thoughts within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by fatcat What people seem to ignore is that most of the laws on the books have been put there in the last ...

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 32

Thread: 2A and Obama:my thoughts

  1. #16
    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    somewhere
    Posts
    1,726
    Quote Originally Posted by fatcat View Post
    What people seem to ignore is that most of the laws on the books have been put there in the last 28 years. Of those 28 years only 8 were under a Democratic president.

    Since 1980, only 8 years, that's right only 8 years have been presided over by a big bad gun stealing Democrat. And yet here we are.

    I'm glad Obama is in office, because IMO he is the best thing to happen to the 2a in a long time. Why? Because now people are paying attention. Like never before people are paying attention to our 2a rights and that is good.

    Where were all the Republican stumpers when those 22 years of Republicans were in office writing anti-gun bills? Since 1980 the GOP is winning the game 22-8. That my friends is a BLOW OUT in any sport. So don't blame the Democrats alone for where we are. Doing so is pure ignorance.

    Where were all the pro gun folks when Reagan was in office signing more anti-gun legislation than any president in the previous 30 years combined?

    People can cry and scream all they want that the Democrats are going to take their guns, but people need to wake up and smell what they are shoveling. You have to fear that EVERY politician has the potential to do it. If McCain had won the Republican voters would have fallen asleep at the wheel and old J-Mac was NOT gun friendly at all. In 2001 the NRA called him the most dangerous man in American when it came to the 2a. Yet people are all scared because Obama won.

    The paranoid double standard is why we are where we are in terms of gun ownership in America. I don't blame the Democratic voters, I blame the Republican voters who voted for their man, and then fell asleep at the wheel and scrutinized NOTHING that they did while in office.

    We need to be vigilant no matter WHO is in office. And the fact that now people are is great.
    This is a great post. +1

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #17
    Member Array mp45fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Lubbock, Tx
    Posts
    380
    Best news is.........Obama is the best gun seller that he have seen in years!
    Randy
    "The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should have never laid down". -unknown

  4. #18
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,669
    What do you think about an ammo tax? What was it, something like five cents per round?

    Let's see we have a President with a record for voting for every anti-gun bill, a vice President that's the same; billionaires heavily funding anti-gun groups; a President that publically stated he was against concealed carry; and last but not least a public at large that elected them accepting those stances, sending the message that anti-gun is ok.

    Sure Obama, or at least the perceived threat of Obama, as the case may be, is good for gun sales in the short term, but what about the long term? And why are people suddenly buying more guns? Why are gun sales going up when the economy is going down? Could it possibly be that there is a perception 'get'em while you can'?

    I'm really curious, if the current situation doesn't cause you concern, what situation would?

    Are you finding consolation in 'the last AWB wasn't so bad'? Do you believe the next AWB will be no worse? Do you believe there will be a new AWB passed? Do you believe hi cap mags will once again go sky high because the public won't be able to buy them any more? Do you understand more guns will be specified as AWs in the next AWB? Is it possible that all semi-auto weapons could be legally defined as assault weapons in an assault weapons bill? Has it occurred to you that if the antis realize how much firepower a pump shotgun is capable of, that they will want to specify those as AWs?

    Guys if you're not concerned about these things, I'm not sure you're aware of just how easily these things could happen. I'm not a sky is falling kind of guy - never have been, but when all the ducks are in a row, I'm not blind either. I'd be very cautious about lulling myself into a comfortable dellusion that we, our rights, and our guns are safe in the hands of this administration. The stage is set; nothing else has to be put in place. Legislative fence riders that have opposed anti-gun bills the past 8 years may step on the anti side of the fence. Devout antis now have a cooperative President, and perhaps the most cooperative or coersive House and Senate we've ever had. We need to be careful that we're not believing what makes us comfortable and look at the way things are lined up. How many really think that if a five cent tax per round on all ammo were proposed that they could not get it passed? To me that's the most likely thing they can do. And once that's in place then it's just a matter of inching up the tax per round, just enough so everyone still believes it's not a threat.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Wichita Falls, Texas
    Posts
    1,618
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    What do you think about an ammo tax? What was it, something like five cents per round?

    Let's see we have a President with a record for voting for every anti-gun bill, a vice President that's the same; billionaires heavily funding anti-gun groups; a President that publically stated he was against concealed carry; and last but not least a public at large that elected them accepting those stances, sending the message that anti-gun is ok.

    Sure Obama, or at least the perceived threat of Obama, as the case may be, is good for gun sales in the short term, but what about the long term? And why are people suddenly buying more guns? Why are gun sales going up when the economy is going down? Could it possibly be that there is a perception 'get'em while you can'?

    I'm really curious, if the current situation doesn't cause you concern, what situation would?

    Are you finding consolation in 'the last AWB wasn't so bad'? Do you believe the next AWB will be no worse? Do you believe there will be a new AWB passed? Do you believe hi cap mags will once again go sky high because the public won't be able to buy them any more? Do you understand more guns will be specified as AWs in the next AWB? Is it possible that all semi-auto weapons could be legally defined as assault weapons in an assault weapons bill? Has it occurred to you that if the antis realize how much firepower a pump shotgun is capable of, that they will want to specify those as AWs?

    Guys if you're not concerned about these things, I'm not sure you're aware of just how easily these things could happen. I'm not a sky is falling kind of guy - never have been, but when all the ducks are in a row, I'm not blind either. I'd be very cautious about lulling myself into a comfortable dellusion that we, our rights, and our guns are safe in the hands of this administration. The stage is set; nothing else has to be put in place. Legislative fence riders that have opposed anti-gun bills the past 8 years may step on the anti side of the fence. Devout antis now have a cooperative President, and perhaps the most cooperative or coersive House and Senate we've ever had. We need to be careful that we're not believing what makes us comfortable and look at the way things are lined up. How many really think that if a five cent tax per round on all ammo were proposed that they could not get it passed? To me that's the most likely thing they can do. And once that's in place then it's just a matter of inching up the tax per round, just enough so everyone still believes it's not a threat.

    I'm curious about the ammo tax, was that nation wide or just state by state?
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  6. #20
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,669
    I'm under the impression that an ammo tax is one of many devices being considered by anti-gunners. I suspect the more anti-gun states, such as Illinios, California, etc. would jump at the opportunity to tax ammo. They may or may not know that an ammo tax would not reduce crime, but either way, that's not their goal in first place.

    An ammo tax would be an attractive at both the state and federal level. One encourages the other.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  7. #21
    VIP Member
    Array goawayfarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Fork Union, Virginia
    Posts
    2,690
    Quote Originally Posted by fatcat View Post
    What people seem to ignore is that most of the laws on the books have been put there in the last 28 years. Of those 28 years only 8 were under a Democratic president......

    ......We need to be vigilant no matter WHO is in office. And the fact that now people are is great.
    The 'be vigilant' part I agree with!

    The first part I have to question.........There HASN'T been another AWB or Brady type bill since a DEMOCRAT was in office. (I will admit Bush 43 said he would sign one IF it hit his desk...thankfully it didn't!) What other gun laws have been enacted by the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT?

    Regarding concealed carry laws, we have gone from only one or two states that allowed it, to all but 2 who now allow it (even though some of the others have burdensome requirements...). We even have concealed carry in National Parks now!...No way that would happen with a leftist in the White House!

    We have been gaining ground on 'castle doctrine' in many more states.

    Now that the left is in charge in BOTH ends of Penn. Ave., we are now more wary of what might happen.....& no matter what anybody says the left is MORE anti-gun than the right!
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    6,781
    Quote Originally Posted by Guardian View Post
    I'm curious about the ammo tax, was that nation wide or just state by state?
    The idea being kicked around is to be run on a national level by the Feds, and done as an amendment to the Pittman-Robinson 'Wildlife Preservation Act' of 1934 that has been amended multiple times through the years.

    P-R as a base set a federal excise tax on purchase of firearms and ammunition at 11%to be captured and specifically used to support national wildlife management programs. Google it for more info.

    A tag along tax to P-R would be a relatively easy and 'sensible' seeming to many of the uninformed that think of themselves to be nature and wildlife friendly (but who do not actively contribute as we all do and have). Easy to market to the ignorant.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  9. #23
    Member Array alteredspeed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    va
    Posts
    25
    I would like to chime in on this one. To all who think he has more important things to do. Have you seen what he is trying to do will greenhouse gas and emissions standards. Yeah he does care about the small stuff - wanting all states to abide by California, I'm a small auto repair shop owner and the testing equipment would put me out of business because i could not afford it. So don't think anything is too small for them to care about.

  10. #24
    Member Array fatcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    438
    Quote Originally Posted by goawayfarm View Post
    The 'be vigilant' part I agree with!

    The first part I have to question.........There HASN'T been another AWB or Brady type bill since a DEMOCRAT was in office. (I will admit Bush 43 said he would sign one IF it hit his desk...thankfully it didn't!) What other gun laws have been enacted by the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT?

    Regarding concealed carry laws, we have gone from only one or two states that allowed it, to all but 2 who now allow it (even though some of the others have burdensome requirements...). We even have concealed carry in National Parks now!...No way that would happen with a leftist in the White House!

    We have been gaining ground on 'castle doctrine' in many more states.

    Now that the left is in charge in BOTH ends of Penn. Ave., we are now more wary of what might happen.....& no matter what anybody says the left is MORE anti-gun than the right!
    Well Obama has said he agrees with the CCW in National parks, so I'm not sure a Democrat would have shot it down either.

    It is not as clear as Democrat versus Republican. Take a look at the new NY appointee to take Clinton's place. She is very pro gun and is fully endorsed by the NRA. She is a Democrat, and she supports CCW licensing.

    As far as what laws the feds have enacted, have you forgotten all the fall out from the attempt on Reagan's life? The Brady Bill and the dozens of other pieces of legislation from that incident went through with nary a scowl from anyone in the Republican party. Probably because it was something that was propagated from an incident involving one of their own.

    Just like 9/11 gave birth to the bogus Patriot Act, something that has hammered our freedom, was put into play by a Republican president, the bills that came after Reagan's incident were waived through with no fight from either side.

    Turning a blind eye to one party, left or right, is why we lose more freedoms every year. Don't think for ONE second that if the Patriot Act had contained a total ban on firearms that it would not have gotten right through in the wake of 9/11.

    Bush was all for the confiscation of firearms during Katrina, and he was someone the Republicans voted in twice, someone the NRA backed, someone who voted pro gun on many occasions. Yet he had no problem enacting the confiscation during national emergency laws.

    The more we think one side is safer than the other, the more we lose each time.

  11. #25
    Member Array fatcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    438
    Quote Originally Posted by alteredspeed View Post
    I would like to chime in on this one. To all who think he has more important things to due. Have you seen what he is trying to due will greenhouse gas and emissions standards. Yeah he does care about the small stuff. wanting all states to abide by California, I'm a small auto repair shop owner and the testing equipment would put me out of business because i could not afford it. So don;t think anything is too small for them to care about.
    That is not accurate information. He does not want every state to abide by California, he wants each state to decide if they want to or not. And he wants the makers to up the MPG standard.

    And FWIW people in NJ and NY cried about the same thing when they went California Emissions back in the 1990s. The small garages cried that they would suffer, but guess what, they did not. And in fact they have thrived on the new laws since now in NY and NJ you cannot pass inspection if your "check engine" light is on. As someone who has worked in automotive for years I can tell you the small garages have made a fortune off the new inspection standards in NY and NJ.

    It was the same thing when NJ started failing cars for rust. If your car has a rust spot bigger than a 1/2 dollar in NJ you fail inspection. All it did was help body shops all across NJ.

  12. #26
    VIP Member
    Array goawayfarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Fork Union, Virginia
    Posts
    2,690
    Quote Originally Posted by fatcat View Post
    Well Obama has said he agrees with the CCW in National parks, so I'm not sure a Democrat would have shot it down either.
    He said that AFTER it was enacted. He also said he agreed with the Heller case, AFTER is was decided. Prior to that he voted against CCW in Illinois & limiting 2nd amendment rights while there.

    ... Take a look at the new NY appointee to take Clinton's place. She is very pro gun and is fully endorsed by the NRA. She is a Democrat, and she supports CCW licensing.
    Great! She's more to the right than most RINOs are! She's also one of the FEW on the left that feel that way.
    As far as what laws the feds have enacted, have you forgotten all the fall out from the attempt on Reagan's life? The Brady Bill and the dozens of other pieces of legislation from that incident went through with nary a scowl from anyone in the Republican party. Probably because it was something that was propagated from an incident involving one of their own.
    Brady (Nov 1993) & the AWB (Sep 1994) were signed while Clinton was President & democrats controlled Congress. (Republicans didn't control congress until AFTER it passed (Nov 1994)...That's part of the reason they were elected!)

    Just like 9/11 gave birth to the bogus Patriot Act, something that has hammered our freedom, was put into play by a Republican president, the bills that came after Reagan's incident were waived through with no fight from either side.
    You're right there....The Patriot Act has a lot of problems, but how did that effect firearms?

    Don't think for ONE second that if the Patriot Act had contained a total ban on firearms that it would not have gotten right through in the wake of 9/11.
    I think that is a bit of a stretch. If that had been tried there would have been a large outcry.

    Bush was all for the confiscation of firearms during Katrina, and he was someone the Republicans voted in twice, someone the NRA backed, someone who voted pro gun on many occasions. Yet he had no problem enacting the confiscation during national emergency laws.
    Don't remember Bush saying anything OR enacting any legislation on the confiscation. THAT WAS DONE ON A LOCAL LEVEL BY THE STATE & CITY.(Just like it was Bush's fault the levees failed....)

    The more we think one side is safer than the other, the more we lose each time.
    I don't trust ANY politician as far as I can throw them, but there is no denying there are more anti's on the left.....
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array sass20485's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Central FL
    Posts
    2,093
    I would agree. But, I did take advantage of this " crisis " by buying a few more guns and stockpiling some more ammo. But, I would have bought the same either way. So far all the new administration has done is increased gun ownership and brought more folks into the fold on our side.

  14. #28
    Member Array fatcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    438
    Quote Originally Posted by goawayfarm View Post
    He said that AFTER it was enacted. He also said he agreed with the Heller case, AFTER is was decided. Prior to that he voted against CCW in Illinois & limiting 2nd amendment rights while there.



    Great! She's more to the right than most RINOs are! She's also one of the FEW on the left that feel that way.


    Brady (Nov 1993) & the AWB (Sep 1994) were signed while Clinton was President & democrats controlled Congress. (Republicans didn't control congress until AFTER it passed (Nov 1994)...That's part of the reason they were elected!)



    You're right there....The Patriot Act has a lot of problems, but how did that effect firearms?



    I think that is a bit of a stretch. If that had been tried there would have been a large outcry.



    Don't remember Bush saying anything OR enacting any legislation on the confiscation. THAT WAS DONE ON A LOCAL LEVEL BY THE STATE & CITY.(Just like it was Bush's fault the levees failed....)



    I don't trust ANY politician as far as I can throw them, but there is no denying there are more anti's on the left.....
    There is no denying the Democrats are by in large anti gun, but the point is that there are Republicans who are sneaky in the same way.

    As far as the Katrina thing, that law is not local, it is federal and has to be set in motion by the Presidents cabinet during national emergencies. The locals do the confiscation but the feds make the call on anything national.

    As far as the Brady bills, yes they were amended in 1993 by Clinton, but they were initiated and installed under Reagan for the first part, and Bush #1 enacted the 2nd part. It was a 3 stage bill and so far no President has vetoed it.

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,108
    1) Bush had absolutely nothing to do with firearms confiscations during Katrina. If he did, please show me SPECIFIC directives proving this.

    2) Remember that while CLinton caught a bunch of people by surprise with AWB 1, remember also that shortly after he did that, the gun owners tossed a whole bunch of congressmen out of office.

    3) Continuing the #2 thought, never say never, because Clinton never had the kind of congressional majority Obama currently enjoys, in fact no american president has ever had this kind of congressional majority and support.....

    That alone should make you quite fearful.
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  16. #30
    Member Array tabsr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    282

    OBAMA

    He is the ONE, You will be cared for and no need to ever have personal protection.
    "Politicians and Bureaucrats, depend very much on the complicity of their victims, and like criminals, are flummoxed when we don't play the victim role."

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. CNN Reports on "Obama Effect": Gun sales surge after Obama's election
    By JonInNY in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: November 11th, 2008, 10:17 PM
  2. Don't believe Obama!
    By razz in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: June 17th, 2008, 11:23 PM