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Virginia Restaurant ban repeal

3K views 38 replies 24 participants last post by  celticredneck 
#1 ·
One out of five steps cleared :smile:
-- (or maybe six, if vetoed again :aargh4:)

Again, if you are constituents of Stolle (R), Quayle (R), Edwards (D), Reynolds (D), Cuccinelli (R), Obenshain (R), McDougle (R), Deeds (D), or Hurt (R), please thank them some way --visit, call, email, or write.

If you are Senator Norment constituent call him to task. He needs to walk the talk.

Doubt if anyone will change Saslaw (D), but let him know that you are watching.

Give the rest of the antis [Marsh (D), Norment (R), Howell (D), Lucas (D), and Puller (D)] a word to the wise.

From VA-ALERT:

RESTAURANT BAN CLEARS SENATE COMMITTEE

Today Senator Hanger's Restaurant Ban Repeal bill, SB 1035, leared the Senate Courts of Justice committee by 9 to 6.

The notification requirement was strengthened by clarifying whom to notify and defining a penalty if there is no notification.

Voting PRO-GUN were the following Senators:

Stolle (R), Quayle (R), Edwards (D), Reynolds (D), Cuccinelli (R), Obenshain (R), McDougle (R), Deeds (D), Hurt (R)

Voting ANTI-GUN were the following Senators. Senator Norment claims to be pro-gun, but voted wrong (again):

Marsh (D), Saslaw (D), Norment (R), Howell (D), Lucas (D), Puller (D)


DETAILS OF THE BILL

The bill says that the CHP holder cannot drink while carrying concealed in a restaurant that is licensed to serve alcoholic beverages. He must also notify the on-duty ABC manager at the restaurant that he is carrying concealed. Failure to do so is a Class 3 misdemeanor (a fine/but no jail, if convicted).

ANALYSIS

While VCDL is not thrilled with the notification requirement in this bill, the bill is still a step forward. No ground is lost, only gained.

For those gun owners who don't like the requirements in the bill, they can continue to open carry as they have been doing - no notification required. For those who don't mind the requirements, they would be able to carry concealed in a restaurant.

VCDL will work to improve the bill in the next few days on the Floor of the Senate.

INTERESTING ANTI-GUNNER COMMENTS

Here are some of today's gems from the anti-gunners:

First a representative from the Alcoholic Beverage Commission said, "We are concerned that this is a public safety issue... What if someone carrying concealed has their gun taken away from the by a drunken customer and used to shoot someone."

When I spoke, I pointed out how ridiculous that argument was - the gun is CONCEALED, so the drunken customer won't know the person as a gun or where that gun is.

Senator Marsh took the cake, however. He said that if a concealed handgun permit holder came into a restaurant with the intent to "pop" someone in the restaurant, and the permit holder couldn't find someone to declare that he has a concealed gun, he might just go ahead and kill his victim anyhow, without notifying the restaurant of his concealed gun.

Senator Cuccinelli had fun with that one, saying, "So, Senator Marsh, the permit holder, determined to commit murder, would not do so because he was worried about getting charged with a Class 3 misdemeanor?"

Marsh just sat there with a blank look on his face.



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VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
(VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right.
 
#4 ·
It's a step forward, but I'm none to pleased about the notification part. I think I'll just keep carrying open as previously required until they fix the notification part. At least as long as you're used to carrying that way, you're not obvious about it and no one notices anyway.
 
#5 ·
has anybody mde the argument that the alternative, to leave your gun in your car, is even more dangerous?

I don't like the notification at all. It takes away the point of concealed carry. I may consider carrying open in that case. Does VA allow "open carry" using an IWB holster (you just tuck the shirt behind the gun). Some states are very specific about how "open" you have to be.
 
#6 ·
has anybody mde the argument that the alternative, to leave your gun in your car, is even more dangerous?

I don't like the notification at all. It takes away the point of concealed carry. I may consider carrying open in that case. Does VA allow "open carry" using an IWB holster (you just tuck the shirt behind the gun). Some states are very specific about how "open" you have to be.
Most of us that OC in restaurants here do the VA tuck. My nornal carry mode is IWB. Now if wife and I decide to go out to eat, I sometimes will wear a OWB holster, but most the time I still use my IWB holster.
As long as it is recognizable as a gun you meet the OC requirements in VA.
 
#7 ·
#9 ·
DETAILS OF THE BILL

The bill says that the CHP holder cannot drink while carrying concealed in a restaurant that is licensed to serve alcoholic beverages. He must also notify the on-duty ABC manager at the restaurant that he is carrying concealed. Failure to do so is a Class 3 misdemeanor (a fine/but no jail, if convicted).
Although the bill now says who must be notified, it still does not say when they must be notified. If you inform them as you are leaving the restaurant you have fulfilled the requirements of the law. :image035:
 
#13 ·
While this is a SMALL step in the right direction the 'notification' clause is poorly written & vague....it also is pretty dumb....but what do you expect from a dumb politician......(in case you didn't read the funny part of the OP):

Senator Marsh took the cake, however. He said that if a concealed handgun permit holder came into a restaurant with the intent to "pop" someone in the restaurant, and the permit holder couldn't find someone to declare that he has a concealed gun, he might just go ahead and kill his victim anyhow, without notifying the restaurant of his concealed gun.

Senator Cuccinelli had fun with that one, saying, "So, Senator Marsh, the permit holder, determined to commit murder, would not do so because he was worried about getting charged with a Class 3 misdemeanor?"
The only thing that needs to be banned are stupid politicians.....
 
#14 ·
While this is a SMALL step in the right direction the 'notification' clause is poorly written & vague....it also is pretty dumb....but what do you expect from a dumb politician......(in case you didn't read the funny part of the OP):
Senator Marsh took the cake, however. He said that if a concealed handgun permit holder came into a restaurant with the intent to "pop" someone in the restaurant, and the permit holder couldn't find someone to declare that he has a concealed gun, he might just go ahead and kill his victim anyhow, without notifying the restaurant of his concealed gun.

The only thing that needs to be banned are stupid politicians.....
You can't fix stupid:rolleyes:
 
#15 ·
So they want you to walk in, go up to a random employee ( 'cause which one is the ABC guy?), and say...

Hey, I got a gun. I wanna eat some food now. :tired:

.....seriously?:blink:
I'm sure that'll go well.

I know I'm overemphasizing the stupidity in this, but its not that far from what you'd have to do.

(but you gotta admit... you are gonna chuckle to yourself just a bit as you tell the kid at the door that you are packin' :theyareontome:)
 
#17 ·
This bill is long overdue. I just returned from a trip to Missiouri. Traveling by car thru West Virginia, Kentucky, Indiana, Illinois, and Missouri, I enjoyed more rights and freedoms thru reciprocity than I do in my home state.

Only in Illinois were my rights trampled. I had to disarm at the border on both sides of the state.

That is sad.
 
#20 ·
gun bunny, your condolences are appreciated.

yes, it's a silly clause, no doubt meant to ensure the abc manager knows that you are not to be served or drinking. To that end, it has the same effect as OC would to any observant employee who would see your weapon and know not to serve you. If someone were CC and started drinking, got drunk, biligerent, etc...the situation goes downhill fast. Most people who CC are responsible enough to not drink on their own accord, but since politicians almost never give citizens credit for personal responsibility, I can understand the concession (but still don't support it).

So, if we get this bill through, will it be then impossible to muster enough support to eventually strike through the notification clause? And to that extent is it worth it to tell your representatives to pass it? I think this is a step in the right direction and we should push for it.
 
#21 ·
The notification part of the bill is an embarrassment to the politicians of Virginia. It accomplishes nothing other than to make more people OC, which I an not a proponent of. The arguments against CC by the antis are so outlandishly stupid, that I am embarrassed to have these legislatures represent the state of Virginia.

My plan. Conceal carry to my seat. Leave in my IWB and untuck at table making it OC. When the bill comes have waiter/waitress notify ABC manager, or have him/her come to table. Conceal again and leave restaurant.

Sounds ridiculous, but without debating the issue, I am strongly against OC. Of course my actions are certainly less ridiculous than the rule itself.
 
#22 ·
Like all of you, I think this is so ridiculous! I've been in a lot of restaurants that serve alcohol, and bars too while carrying concealed. I never drink and carry or drive for that matter, I go for the food! But I just can't see the point, make it illegal to drink while carrying, that's all, everything else is non-sense! there are a lot of states that allow you to carry concealed in places that serve, and "the streets are not red with blood"! Does anyone bring that up to these bone-heads?
Rant off!
 
#23 ·
Get to Work

Find this item at this link.
Virginia Senate to Vote on Right-to-Carry Reform Measure Tomorrow!


Tomorrow, Tuesday, February 3, the Virginia Senate will vote on Senate Bill 1035.

Sponsored by Senator Emmett Hanger, Jr. (R-24), SB1035 would permit a Right-to-Carry permit holder to carry a concealed firearm into a restaurant, provided they notify a designated employee that they posses a concealed handgun and do not consume any alcohol. This bill is similar to last year’s bill that was passed and ultimately vetoed by Governor Tim Kaine (D).

Currently, concealed carry permit holders dining in restaurants that serve alcohol must leave their firearm at home or locked in their vehicle where it is at risk of being stolen. Despite passing a background check and possessing a state issued permit to carry, law-abiding permit holders are forced to give up their right to self-defense when dining in establishments that serve alcohol. The need for this legislation is clear.

Please contact your State Senator TODAY and respectfully urge them to support SB1035. Contact information can be found by clicking here. You may also contact your Senator at their Richmond office at (804) 698-7410 or (804) 698-1470.


While this legislation is clearly important to law-abiding gun owners of the Old Dominion, please do not forget to make your voices heard in opposition to Senate Bill 1257 which could also be voted on tomorrow. For more information on SB1257 and how to take action against it, please click here.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
#24 ·
He must also notify the on-duty ABC manager at the restaurant that he is carrying concealed. Failure to do so is a Class 3 misdemeanor (a fine/but no jail, if convicted).
I can see it now:
CCer: Sir I need to inform you I have a gun...
restaurant worker: GUN! GUN! THE MAN HAS A GUN!

All it would take is the wrong wording and another law abiding citizen gets screwed.


First a representative from the Alcoholic Beverage Commission said, "We are concerned that this is a public safety issue... What if someone carrying concealed has their gun taken away from the by a drunken customer and used to shoot someone.
Since the gun is concealed the drunk wouldn't even know it was there, unless drunks in Virginia have x-ray vision. I would think the guy legally open carrying would be the "Bigger Safety Risk.":sheep:
 
#25 · (Edited)
Another victory today

VA-ALERT:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Another victory today - Senator Hanger's restaurant ban repeal passed the Senate by 24 to 16!

More details later tonight.
:congrats:

Here are more details, from Phil:

Senator Hanger's restaurant ban repeal bill, SB 1035, passed out of
the Senate today and will make its way to the House and the process
begins again. We will continue to follow the bill's progress and let
you know what to do next.

Here are the Senators who voted PRO-GUN, in support of SB 1035 (NOTE:
Senator Marsh claims he didn't mean to vote pro-gun on this bill):

Cuccinelli, Deeds, Edwards, Hanger, Houck, Hurt, Marsh, Martin,
McDougle, Newman, Obenshain, Petersen, Puckett, Quayle, Reynolds,
Ruff, Smith, Stolle, Stosch, Stuart, Vogel, Wagner, Wampler, Watkins

Here are the Senators voting ANTI-GUN:

Barker, Blevins, Colgan, Herring, Howell, Locke, Lucas, McEachin,
Miller, J.C., Miller, Y.B., Norment, Northam, Puller, Saslaw, Ticer,
Whipple
 
#26 ·
My email to Senator Miller:

Senator Miller,

I’m highly disappointed in your recent vote against SB 1035. As you are well aware, concealed permit holders are among the most law-abiding citizens in the country. This fact is evidenced by the number of permits that have been revoked nationwide…a number that is somewhere in the hundredths of a percentage point. I can legally carry a concealed handgun to defend myself and my family in our Commonwealth. I resent giving up that right when I enter a restaurant. Leaving my gun in a car is a risky proposition; carrying concealed in a restaurant is not.

I currently live in Richmond but am moving to your district at the end of the month. As a graduate of (a local) High School and an active military member, I have extensive contacts in the area. I am also politically active in Richmond and have every intention of getting involved in my new district. I look forward to working towards having a State Senator that respects the wording and intent of the 2nd Amendment and my rights as a law-abiding citizen of Virginia.

Sincerely,


xxxxxxx

I'm confident in my ability to get several hundred voters to vote against this guy in my old hometown. His district has some conservative parts, but does include Newport News and Hampton City. Maybe those two cities would have less crime if more law-abiding citizens carried.
 
#27 ·
Are you friggin kidding me ?????????????????????? This is even a debate. What the @#$@# is so special about a restaurant that serves alcohol. IF it's an irresponsible gun owner, then take away their right to carry and charge them... but leave everyone else alone.

We had a stupid law.... if they serve 49% alcohol / 51% food it's a restaurant, and the other way around is a bar. They made it illegal to carry in a bar. That caused all kinds of issues, so it was changed and now it's if they don't want you to conceal carry they have to post at the door..... with a legitimate approved "no conceal carry" sign. Otherwise, you are legal to carry in either.

They really are stuck in the Old West, aren't they .... this is a joke guys. Any "responsible" owner is not going to drink and carry, and you haven't been irresponsbile or you would have never gotten the conceal carry permit. If someone is irresponsible, then deal with them..... don't kill the whole herd becasue one cow coughed.
 
#28 ·
I don't understand the problem with notification that you are carrying a conceal weapon. Just wear a bright orange shirt or vest when you enter that says "CONCEAL WEAPON ON BOARD" or "CARRYING CONCEAL WEAPON" in large letters.
 
#29 ·
I agree this is a stupid requirement...hopefully one that will go away while in committee. But....if you had to go along with this farce...

How about a registered letter notifying them of your intent to conceal carry....

You know they will circular-file the letter.

They want to play dumb? You keep a copy of the receipt with the copy of the letter. The burden is on them....again, the law does not specific when or how to notify the "on-duty ABC manager"....

Someone needs to flog the ABC idiots for this idiotic requirement. They pretty much need to stay the heck out of any legislation that does not include the sale or purchase of alcohol.
 
#30 ·
Holger, great letter. If it's alright with you I'm going to shamelessly plagerize it (after editing the full on political involvement part) and send it on to my ANTI state senator.
 
#31 ·
If all goes well in the coming few days I will be joining you all up there. I hate the restaurant carry issues in VA. I am from PA and currently live in Texas both places it is a non-issue but my problem will be having to leave it in my car after I move to VA. I can not bring myself to open carry a firearm because of my job and the reputation that needs to stand behind my employer and myself.
 
#32 ·
Just out of curiosity, what type of job do you have that your following the law would jeopardize you and your employers reputation?
 
#36 ·
I'm sorry guys, this is "sad"... when you think it's OK to have to notify the Mgr of a business that you are carrying a firearm concealed, when you can walk in with one on your hip in the open.

Fight for what you believe, not for the scraps they want you to accept.
 
#38 ·
Carrying while intoxicated is already a class-one misdemeanor for which one becomes ineligible to have a permit for five years. How is a prohibition against any drinking based on a threat of a conviction for a class three misdemeanor going to enhance that threat? Though two convictions of lesser misdemeanors can also make one ineligible.
 
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