Virginia Restaurant ban repeal

This is a discussion on Virginia Restaurant ban repeal within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; One out of five steps cleared -- (or maybe six, if vetoed again ) Again, if you are constituents of Stolle (R), Quayle (R), Edwards ...

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Thread: Virginia Restaurant ban repeal

  1. #1
    VIP Member
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    Thumbs up Virginia Restaurant ban repeal

    One out of five steps cleared
    -- (or maybe six, if vetoed again )

    Again, if you are constituents of Stolle (R), Quayle (R), Edwards (D), Reynolds (D), Cuccinelli (R), Obenshain (R), McDougle (R), Deeds (D), or Hurt (R), please thank them some way --visit, call, email, or write.

    If you are Senator Norment constituent call him to task. He needs to walk the talk.

    Doubt if anyone will change Saslaw (D), but let him know that you are watching.

    Give the rest of the antis [Marsh (D), Norment (R), Howell (D), Lucas (D), and Puller (D)] a word to the wise.

    From VA-ALERT:

    RESTAURANT BAN CLEARS SENATE COMMITTEE

    Today Senator Hanger's Restaurant Ban Repeal bill, SB 1035, leared the Senate Courts of Justice committee by 9 to 6.

    The notification requirement was strengthened by clarifying whom to notify and defining a penalty if there is no notification.

    Voting PRO-GUN were the following Senators:

    Stolle (R), Quayle (R), Edwards (D), Reynolds (D), Cuccinelli (R), Obenshain (R), McDougle (R), Deeds (D), Hurt (R)

    Voting ANTI-GUN were the following Senators. Senator Norment claims to be pro-gun, but voted wrong (again):

    Marsh (D), Saslaw (D), Norment (R), Howell (D), Lucas (D), Puller (D)


    DETAILS OF THE BILL

    The bill says that the CHP holder cannot drink while carrying concealed in a restaurant that is licensed to serve alcoholic beverages. He must also notify the on-duty ABC manager at the restaurant that he is carrying concealed. Failure to do so is a Class 3 misdemeanor (a fine/but no jail, if convicted).

    ANALYSIS

    While VCDL is not thrilled with the notification requirement in this bill, the bill is still a step forward. No ground is lost, only gained.

    For those gun owners who don't like the requirements in the bill, they can continue to open carry as they have been doing - no notification required. For those who don't mind the requirements, they would be able to carry concealed in a restaurant.

    VCDL will work to improve the bill in the next few days on the Floor of the Senate.

    INTERESTING ANTI-GUNNER COMMENTS

    Here are some of today's gems from the anti-gunners:

    First a representative from the Alcoholic Beverage Commission said, "We are concerned that this is a public safety issue... What if someone carrying concealed has their gun taken away from the by a drunken customer and used to shoot someone."

    When I spoke, I pointed out how ridiculous that argument was - the gun is CONCEALED, so the drunken customer won't know the person as a gun or where that gun is.

    Senator Marsh took the cake, however. He said that if a concealed handgun permit holder came into a restaurant with the intent to "pop" someone in the restaurant, and the permit holder couldn't find someone to declare that he has a concealed gun, he might just go ahead and kill his victim anyhow, without notifying the restaurant of his concealed gun.

    Senator Cuccinelli had fun with that one, saying, "So, Senator Marsh, the permit holder, determined to commit murder, would not do so because he was worried about getting charged with a Class 3 misdemeanor?"

    Marsh just sat there with a blank look on his face.



    -------------------------------------------
    ************************************************** *************************
    VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    (VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

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  3. #2
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    Hopefully it will pass again this year, and we will have enough votes to override Gov. Kaine's veto of it.

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    Thumbs down

    Wha...??? Legislation to require concealed carriers to notify somebody that they are carrying???

    Screw that. That seems like a pretty lousy compromise of the RKBA, to me.

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    It's a step forward, but I'm none to pleased about the notification part. I think I'll just keep carrying open as previously required until they fix the notification part. At least as long as you're used to carrying that way, you're not obvious about it and no one notices anyway.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  6. #5
    Senior Member Array PaulJ's Avatar
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    has anybody mde the argument that the alternative, to leave your gun in your car, is even more dangerous?

    I don't like the notification at all. It takes away the point of concealed carry. I may consider carrying open in that case. Does VA allow "open carry" using an IWB holster (you just tuck the shirt behind the gun). Some states are very specific about how "open" you have to be.
    I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. (Thomas Jefferson)

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulJ View Post
    has anybody mde the argument that the alternative, to leave your gun in your car, is even more dangerous?

    I don't like the notification at all. It takes away the point of concealed carry. I may consider carrying open in that case. Does VA allow "open carry" using an IWB holster (you just tuck the shirt behind the gun). Some states are very specific about how "open" you have to be.
    Most of us that OC in restaurants here do the VA tuck. My nornal carry mode is IWB. Now if wife and I decide to go out to eat, I sometimes will wear a OWB holster, but most the time I still use my IWB holster.
    As long as it is recognizable as a gun you meet the OC requirements in VA.

  8. #7
    Member Array jowgafist's Avatar
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    yeah not happy with the "notification" part but it is a step forward. now go thank the Senators

    Emails:
    Stolle: info@kenstolle.com
    Quayle: district13@senate.virginia.gov
    Edwards: district21@senate.virginia.gov
    Reynolds: district20@senate.virginia.gov
    Cussinelli: district37@senate.virginia.gov
    Obenshain: mark@markobenshain.com
    McDougle: district04@senate.virginia.gov
    Deeds: district25@senate.virginia.gov
    Hurt: district19@senate.virginia.gov

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XDFender View Post
    Wha...??? Legislation to require concealed carriers to notify somebody that they are carrying???

    Screw that. That seems like a pretty lousy compromise of the RKBA, to me.
    Seems like a move from the ridiculous to the sublime to me. More and more I thank my lucky stars that I'm able to live where I live.

  10. #9
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    DETAILS OF THE BILL

    The bill says that the CHP holder cannot drink while carrying concealed in a restaurant that is licensed to serve alcoholic beverages. He must also notify the on-duty ABC manager at the restaurant that he is carrying concealed. Failure to do so is a Class 3 misdemeanor (a fine/but no jail, if convicted).
    Although the bill now says who must be notified, it still does not say when they must be notified. If you inform them as you are leaving the restaurant you have fulfilled the requirements of the law.

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Although the bill now says who must be notified, it still does not say when they must be notified. If you inform them as you are leaving the restaurant you have fulfilled the requirements of the law.
    So...I wonder if we could get away with leaving a business card at the table upon leaving addressed to said person?
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  12. #11
    Member Array tflhndn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Although the bill now says who must be notified, it still does not say when they must be notified. If you inform them as you are leaving the restaurant you have fulfilled the requirements of the law.
    Somehow I don't think that will be an effective defense if arrested in such an establishment prior to having notified the ABC manager.

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tflhndn View Post
    Somehow I don't think that will be an effective defense if arrested in such an establishment prior to having notified the ABC manager.
    Probably not, but then again, are they going to require the ABC Manager on duty to wear a tag stating that is his position? Do you tell every employee that walks by, until you get the right one, or do you ask for the on duty ABC Manager? Nothing in the proposed bill says how and when you will notify.

  14. #13
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    While this is a SMALL step in the right direction the 'notification' clause is poorly written & vague....it also is pretty dumb....but what do you expect from a dumb politician......(in case you didn't read the funny part of the OP):

    Senator Marsh took the cake, however. He said that if a concealed handgun permit holder came into a restaurant with the intent to "pop" someone in the restaurant, and the permit holder couldn't find someone to declare that he has a concealed gun, he might just go ahead and kill his victim anyhow, without notifying the restaurant of his concealed gun.

    Senator Cuccinelli had fun with that one, saying, "So, Senator Marsh, the permit holder, determined to commit murder, would not do so because he was worried about getting charged with a Class 3 misdemeanor?"
    The only thing that needs to be banned are stupid politicians.....
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goawayfarm View Post
    While this is a SMALL step in the right direction the 'notification' clause is poorly written & vague....it also is pretty dumb....but what do you expect from a dumb politician......(in case you didn't read the funny part of the OP):
    Senator Marsh took the cake, however. He said that if a concealed handgun permit holder came into a restaurant with the intent to "pop" someone in the restaurant, and the permit holder couldn't find someone to declare that he has a concealed gun, he might just go ahead and kill his victim anyhow, without notifying the restaurant of his concealed gun.

    The only thing that needs to be banned are stupid politicians.....
    You can't fix stupid
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  16. #15
    Member Array rmxer85's Avatar
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    So they want you to walk in, go up to a random employee ( 'cause which one is the ABC guy?), and say...

    Hey, I got a gun. I wanna eat some food now.

    .....seriously?
    I'm sure that'll go well.

    I know I'm overemphasizing the stupidity in this, but its not that far from what you'd have to do.

    (but you gotta admit... you are gonna chuckle to yourself just a bit as you tell the kid at the door that you are packin' )
    I thoroughly disapprove of duels.
    If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand
    and lead him to a quiet place and kill him.
    -Mark Twain

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