Bill To Allow Guns In Church: AR

Bill To Allow Guns In Church: AR

This is a discussion on Bill To Allow Guns In Church: AR within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; The Morning News: Legislature : Bill To Allow Guns In Church LITTLE ROCK Arkansans with permits to carry concealed handguns could bring their guns ...

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Thread: Bill To Allow Guns In Church: AR

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Bill To Allow Guns In Church: AR

    The Morning News: Legislature : Bill To Allow Guns In Church

    LITTLE ROCK Arkansans with permits to carry concealed handguns could bring their guns to church under a bill filed Tuesday by state Rep. Beverly Pyle, R-Cedarville.

    House Bill 1237 would remove any church or other place of worship from the list of places that a person with a license to carry a concealed handgun is not allowed to carry a gun under state law.

    Because of so many things thats happened across the nation in our churches, so many incidents and deaths, this is something that needs to be addressed before something else happens in our state, Pyle said.

    The bill also would allow concealed handguns in the parking lots of places of worship.

    Pyle said a church could post a sign banning handguns but would still be allowed under the bill to give certain people permission to carry guns into the church.

    Guns in church may be more common than people realize, Pyle said. "Wed probably be surprised how many people do it already because they forget they have it in their purse," she said.

    Fourteen House members have signed as co-sponsors of the bill.


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    Hope it passes. Good luck.
    eschew obfuscation

    The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    I have seen this, as I am also a member on arkansascarry.com. I'm more up-to-date than ever now with the home state. You really want to know what bugs me about it (and I'm all for it by the way)..........what ever happened to the separation of church and state? I know it started at the federal level, but now, all of a sudden it's acceptable? I say conflict of interest here, and I'm not taking one side or the other on the deal.....it's just I figured it written in stone for the state (or government) not to interfere with churches or religion. Okay.....so I'm confused. I'm not looking for arguments here....just enlighten me a little bit on this ordeal.

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    I know it started at the federal level, but now, all of a sudden it's acceptable? I say conflict of interest here, and I'm not taking one side or the other on the deal.....it's just I figured it written in stone for the state (or government) not to interfere with churches or religion. Okay.....so I'm confused. I'm not looking for arguments here....just enlighten me a little bit on this ordeal.
    I've been saying that for years RamRod. I figure all it would take is a challenge in court.
    Since its legal to carry concealed, technically how could it be that you couldn't carry in a church? Unless of course it was posted.

    Fact of the matter is, a lot of Pastors carry on church property. They do so because it is considered their place of business and they are for the most part considered to be the caretakers of it, or the "Responsible Person"as the Leo's call it. I am not aware of one case where that practice has even been questioned.

    I haven't given it a whole lot of thought because I carry there anyway. I just had a meeting with our new Sheriff an hour or so ago, and he wants ALL of his Deputys that go to church to carry there, because he believes that it is no more than a target rich environment. As a matter of fact, he has scheduled an active shooter scenario to take place at our church soon. We go there together as well as 4 other deputies and a couple of city cops.

    Im just glad that our new Sheriff is pro-gun. I even got him committed to teach some of our CHL classes for the Law Enforcement part tonight.

    I hope this bill passes. Maybe people are finally realizing that stupid laws dont impede Bad Guys....well,those that didnt vote for Obama anyways...
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    I've been saying that for years RamRod. I figure all it would take is a challenge in court.
    Since its legal to carry concealed, technically how could it be that you couldn't carry in a church? Unless of course it was posted.
    But then technically speaking....we both believe that the 2nd amendment has been violated on all counts because of us needing to gain a permit to carry at all. An okay from the government. Now the government will dictate to the churches that they must either accept carry among the congregation or follow state laws in posting otherwise? Perhaps I'm still lost on the ideals? Separation of church and state is still stuck in my head, and I felt that concept was rather simple and straight forward. Be it far from me to think carry everywhere is not for the best. But I think we need to stick with some of the basics we rely on so much. I'm just having difficulty with it is all....maybe I'm stuck somewhere?
    SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE IN THE U.S.

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    I'm with you.
    I just see this bill as making a correction of a situation that shouldn't have taken place to begin with...
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    use to paseor there wish this was going on in La
    Why Would A Preacher ever need a Gun? Its Not for the Sheep , its for the Wolves!

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    I'm with you.
    I just see this bill as making a correction of a situation that shouldn't have taken place to begin with...
    Say....you wouldn't have happened to be a car salesman in the past would you? Insurance maybe? You've always got that way of making sense to me in one sentence that takes me a paragraph to explain. I don't see us ever having a valid argument.

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    Nah...
    just using my communications skills that come from years of practice on my darling schoolteacher wife...
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    Good Luck on getting the change.
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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    In Kansas, you can carry in a church as long as it's not posted. They changed several 'restricted' areas with a new bill........ hope it goes that way for you too.

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    Good luck to my neighbor state.
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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    I have seen this, as I am also a member on arkansascarry.com. I'm more up-to-date than ever now with the home state. You really want to know what bugs me about it (and I'm all for it by the way)..........what ever happened to the separation of church and state? I know it started at the federal level, but now, all of a sudden it's acceptable? I say conflict of interest here, and I'm not taking one side or the other on the deal.....it's just I figured it written in stone for the state (or government) not to interfere with churches or religion. Okay.....so I'm confused. I'm not looking for arguments here....just enlighten me a little bit on this ordeal.
    Ram Rod,

    I'll take a bit of a crack at this...

    IMO, there has never really been a true separation of church (religion) and state. The Constitution says that there shall not be an establishment of a particular religion. What that meant back then, is that the U.S. would not have a state religion, i.e., denomination, such as Lutheran, or Catholic, or Quaker. It was never intended by the Founders, all of whom were at least believers in God (Deists), if not staunch Christians, though of different persuasions, to root any reference or understanding of God out of the public affairs of the nation. They just didn't think that way, much like they would have been unable to ever agree with the concept of an unarmed populace.

    For many years, the church had a fair bit of say in the laws of the land. The basis for all of our law today is the Hebrew Scriptures, with its value on human life, personal property, and treating others, including the poor and alien, with a respect that would have been rare in the days in which these laws were written. Judge Roy Moore, and others, are vilified for what is merely historical fact-our laws come from the Judeo-Christian scriptures.

    Today, the opposite is true-the state has quite a bit of say in the affairs of the church. From zoning laws to noise ordinances, the law gets involved in the actions of the church all the time.

    Now, the concept of separation of church and state is simply a hammer and chisel which some would use to root out all reference to religion in the public arena. In fact, many of those would like to destroy religion altogether.

    Anyway, should 'the state' be telling any 'church' whether or not its members can carry to protect themselves? Of course not! The Bill of Rights guarantees that state cannot interfere in the affairs of religious bodies. And, of course, the 2A guarantees the right to defend oneself, in a church or or a convenience store, at the altar or on the fairway. Some people don't get that either.
    Last edited by miklcolt45; February 3rd, 2009 at 12:04 AM. Reason: cleared up some cloudy wording...i hope
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  14. #14
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    and now, back on topic...


    There was a pretty good article about it in the local paper today. This bill seems to have a lot of support. Even the Little Rock paper which is pretty much against everything that makes sense has had some pretty fair articles in it.

    It may actually have an ever small chance of passing. In light of the recent church shootings, no one wants to be seen as opposing what seems to be common sense legislation. Its not all good though, the bill would allow any church that would do so the means to exclude any concealed carry. There are some denominations that feel like they are bullet proof and it does a real disservice to those that know better.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  15. #15
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    I hope it passes also. I've been thinking about our world lately and all the fanatics running around out there that would love nothing better then to cause America trouble.

    How do you do that to a country more then going after their kids and two of the best places for that is schools and churches, where you hit the heart of a country, they tried with the financial world and succeeded in torking us off, turning away heads a different way, what's next if it should come.

    I hope this passes with all my soul.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

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