New Republican Party Position on Guns??????

This is a discussion on New Republican Party Position on Guns?????? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Guns and more Forget the republican party. They have become just as bad as the democrats. Time for a real party that ...

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Thread: New Republican Party Position on Guns??????

  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array P7fanatic's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Guns and more View Post
    Forget the republican party. They have become just as bad as the democrats. Time for a real party that believes in the Constitution.
    Sorry to say the Repubs have lost their way and have become wimps. I hope they can get their stuff together. To get rid of McCain, Graham and the like would be helpful. If not it may be necessary for a third party. But, there would have to be trmendous discontent adn an outporing of voters for a third party to win rather than just screw up an election as it did in '92.
    I believe for a third party to be viable, it would have to grow from local and state offices. But with the momentum of the dems, the ignorance, complacency and apathy of American voters, something has to change much sooner. And I'm not speaking of the change we've heard about the last year.
    Just some thoughts.


    Last edited by Captain Crunch; February 3rd, 2009 at 01:22 AM. Reason: Edited a profanity workaround.
    "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." -Thomas Jefferson

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  3. #32
    Member Array concealed's Avatar
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    I agree. Voting for a third party can backfire as it did with Perot. If the third party is taking votes away from the next best candidate, you may be better off voting for him /her. The third parry needs to find a well repsected and none individual to represent them and start out campaining early. In other words, start now for the next Presidential election.

  4. #33
    Member Array trapper T's Avatar
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    Everybody complains about Ross Perot. That crazy little man scared the two party system in this country!!! You all keep talking about changing your own party to what it should be. They are changing, FAR LEFT. Take the time to listen to these Independents, they sound just like the Republicans use to.
    The problem with Perot was that he did not BS. He brought his graphs to show you how things worked. Our two party system talked BS and got you to laugh at him. Look at how many votes he got. He scared the Dems and Reps. so bad that they got the media to BAN Independents from Debates unless they had more than 15%? of the vote. That keeps us a two party system. We are not a two party system in this country. You all talk Constitution, is time for you to read and understand it.
    Allowing the Dems and Reps to continue running this country unchecked will bring you down. Just think "CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN" well, do you believe? Change would be to vote in Independents. They might scare you a little but listen to the way you are talking here. You are scared to death right now!!!
    Next time you vote, VOTE INDEPENDENT, this will get your messege across. You may loose votes for your favorite canidate but he isn't listening to you anyways. With the current TWO PARTY SYSTEM you are loosing anyways!!

  5. #34
    Senior Member Array hudsonvalley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napolean View Post
    .223 is legal for Fall turkey in the state of Colorado. An AR is what I will be using for my Fall hunt.
    Isn't it true that most hunting rifles started out as military firearms?
    Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives.
    ---Ronald Reagan

  6. #35
    Member Array fatcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulJ View Post
    If none of the major parties has a platform for you: By all means vote for a 3rd party. Even if it doesn't get elected, your vote will count a lot more. Think about all the soul searching the democrats did over the couple % they lost to the Green party.

    Parties don't care about their base. They will vote for them anyway. This last election, 2A / Libertarian issues didn't exactly matter becasue there was no visible candidate advocating this issue. Republicans knew they had the issue locked up.
    Actually there was. Bob Barr, the Libertarian nominee is VERY pro 2a, and stated so in no uncertain terms on his website. is voting has opposed any form of firearm regulations including registration.

    But he got too few votes, and the NRA punked out on him by backing McCain. We just need to make sure that all the parties involved know how pro 2a people stand. As others have said the GOP is no longer going to be the party to back pro gun people. So we need to choose our candidates for their ability to adapt and change and understand the wants and needs of the public.

  7. #36
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    Why would I take a 22 deer hunting. You can compare apples and oranges all day but that don 't mean crap. Just another small minded politician who is not qualified to represent the people.

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    All we need to do is stick to our guns and keep the heat on the republicans; don't worry about McCain and Graham and that bunch - most of them are old and nearing the end of their careers, so they will leave office in the next couple of years anyway.

    What we really need to do is scrutinize the candidates that the republican party is supporting, and keep up the grass roots efforts at hammering them every time they try to foist a RINO on us and make sure that every candidate that runs under the republican name be a true conservative, not a RINO.

    It will take time, but we will win eventually. The Democrats are doing a great job right now of living up to all of our worst fears, something that will cost them dearly in the near future.
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  9. #38
    Member Array shawn45's Avatar
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    unfortunately I hear lots of rhetoric and complaining about the current system but not much in the way of willingness for many of you to actually change your own behavior. Voting for a the current establishment, wither it is Dems or Reps is like complaining that your spouse beats you, but that they really love you and will change. They won't and you are in denial. Dem/Reps, don't care about your guns or your rights, they both spend your money like school girls at the mall and have little or no respect for the Constitution or State's Rights. The only way to change the system is violent revolution, or third party voting. I'm not ready to join a violent revolution yet, so I will continue to make my voice heard by voting third party. If a third party gets 5% of the vote in any given state, they are automatically on the ballot for the next election. This means no more petitioning to get on the ballot which takes up most of the money and time a third party has available. Think about the following quote from Alexander Taylor circa 1787 as it pertains to today's environment.

    "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."

  10. #39
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    sort of agree here

    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    The source is someone quoting a source that was quoting the Washington Post in 2006.

    Interestingly, the full quote and context is different than the partial that is being used to villify Steele.

    Q: Your views on gun control?

    A: My views are pretty much in line with the governor's. I grew up under some of the strictest gun control laws in the country. You can have all the gun control laws in the country, but if you don't enforce them, people are going to find a way to protect themselves. We need to recognize that bad people are doing bad things with these weapons. It's not the law-abiding citizens, it's not the person who uses it as a hobby.

    Q: Should people have access to buy assault weapons?

    A: Society should draw lines. What do you need an assault weapon for, if you're going hunting? That's overkill. But I don't think that means you go to a total ban for those who want to use gun for skeet shooting or hunting or things like that But what's the point of passing gun laws if we're not going to enforce them? If you want to talk about gun control, that's where you need to start. We've got 300 gun laws on the books right now. At the end of the day, it's about how we enforce the law.

    Source: Washington Post interview Oct 16, 2006
    ======

    My first impression is that the grammar and sentence structure is not consistent with Steele's other speeches. Granted, this was just an interview but he is typically articulate (and clean.) I don't think these are his exact words partly because it doesn't make much sense.

    Further, he specifically differentiated people protecting themselves from the 'hobby' of hunting, which is why the answers seem so disjointed.

    If he is involved in writing the planks of he Republican platform, he will certainly clarify his current position. The quote, after all, is over two years old.
    I sort of agree with your analysis here, but I am afraid too many people across the spectrum, short of the guys like Barr and others who will get nowhere in elections, simply insist on using the words " hunting" and "gun ownership" as if they were some how equivalent, and as if there weren't half a dozen other legitimate sporting and self defense uses for guns. Then, they bring up AWs and pooh on them because in their mind's eye they are not legitimate for hunting, and therefore have no legitimate purpose whatsoever--never mind that they are nothing more than semi-autos dressed up in black with some additional frills. This, "I'm pro-hunter" so I'm good on guns," approach won't cut it, and shouldn't be allowed to cut it.

    I'm with BlackPR here. I don't think gun control or gun owner rights issues are particularly party driven or party owned.

    For example, I have (had before I retired) a co-worker who was robbed while visiting a big city. He and his wife then got their licenses. His dad is a Dem State Rep. from a rural district and quite pro-our side of things. I suppose, but never asked, that he is even more on our side since the bad episode happened. (Nothing like having your son and daughter in-law held at knife point to firm up a pro-2A position.)

    Similarly, I had a supervisor who was a very avid hunter, a dyed in the wool Republican voter, and as anti-handgun and cc as you could possibly get. He often told me handguns scare him, but at the same time acknowledged that half the guys who worked for him carried. That was fine with him, but he didn't like it all the same.

    And, I had another supervisor who I am pretty sure votes for Dems, but carries too.

    We will all be better off if we quit trying to make gun owner rights a partisan issue. Just support the local office holders who share our viewpoint. And as I have written before, that means more than sending e-mails with hyperbolic language demanding our rights.
    Last edited by Hopyard; February 3rd, 2009 at 09:46 PM.

  11. #40
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trapper T View Post
    Everybody complains about Ross Perot. That crazy little man scared the two party system in this country!!! You all keep talking about changing your own party to what it should be. They are changing, FAR LEFT. Take the time to listen to these Independents, they sound just like the Republicans use to.
    Perot scared no one and actually cemented the two party system. People like that demonstrate their lack of widespread appeal by focusing on singular issues to the exclusion of everything else. The only result of third party candidates is to hurt the very constituency the people who waste their votes endorse.

    The problem with Perot was that he did not BS. He brought his graphs to show you how things worked. Our two party system talked BS and got you to laugh at him. Look at how many votes he got.
    Perot had no experience in anything but economics. He was laughed at because he was not a serious candidate.

    He scared the Dems and Reps. so bad that they got the media to BAN Independents from Debates unless they had more than 15%? of the vote.
    Debates must be serious discussions among viable candidates. The primary debates for both Republicans and Democrats were examples of how large field debates were detrimental to the people. The candidates had too little time to provide expanded opinions so the people relied on the media to fil in the gaps.

    That keeps us a two party system. We are not a two party system in this country. You all talk Constitution, is time for you to read and understand it.
    Yes, I encourage everyone to read the Constitution. There is nothing that precludes a two party system. The fact is that the two party system is the only viable way to further the goals embodied in the Constitution. Obviously, in a multiple party scenario it would extremely common for the winner to not have the support of even half the people. A leader of the greatest country on earth that most people voted against? Ridiculous.

    Further, it is far better to have two distinct groups espousing polar opposite views and ideals. Moderation is the bane of a free society. This whole concept of bipartisanship is misguided and causes exactly the problems we current have. Just look how the Obama Socialism Bill is now under severe scrutiny only because every Republican in the House voted nay. Yes, it may get passed anyway but Americans have taken a stand against the socialists. In the next election the people will be able to understand how one party stands for free market capitalizing without the mushy moderate compromoises that cause problems.

    And, as I explained earlier, a third party candidate always enables a lesser candidate to have a great advantage, sometimes enough to change election results.

    Allowing the Dems and Reps to continue running this country unchecked will bring you down. Just think "CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN" well, do you believe? Change would be to vote in Independents. They might scare you a little but listen to the way you are talking here. You are scared to death right now!!!
    Who is scared to death? You? There is no such thing as an 'Independent' candidate. One reason that these so called moderates fail to win elections is because they have virtually no support from either end of the spectrum. In many cases, they encompass the worst of both sides.

    Next time you vote, VOTE INDEPENDENT, this will get your messege across. You may loose votes for your favorite canidate but he isn't listening to you anyways. With the current TWO PARTY SYSTEM you are loosing anyways!!
    Voting for a fringe candidate is at best wasting a vote. At worst, it enables those with significantly differnt view to gain power. You may as well stay home, you will do less damage.

  12. #41
    Member Array trapper T's Avatar
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    Eight year of Republican control and we still have to worry about 2A. If you want to talk Economics turn your TV on and listen to the worst economic plan yet. I have yet to find anywhere in the Constitution stating that a person must have experience to run for office. Our two party system does what ever they want because they know you will continue to vote for them. If people are not scared of BO, why have this site? After all, he is not going to take your gun rights.

  13. #42
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trapper T View Post
    Eight year of Republican control and we still have to worry about 2A.
    Some will worry about their perceived rights no matter who is in power. The fact is that the Second Amendment has remained ntact with the singular exceptions of the AWB and the gun ban in DC. And BOTH of those situations have been corrected.

    If you want to talk Economics turn your TV on and listen to the worst economic plan yet. I have yet to find anywhere in the Constitution stating that a person must have experience to run for office.
    I never claimed someone needs experience. What they are required to do is demonstrate knowledge on a wide and varied range of issues. However, people with a modicum of common sense want a proven leader, one who has demonstrated an ability to manage. That is why governors and generals are the most successful Presidents.

    Our two party system does what ever they want because they know you will continue to vote for them.
    Can you elaborate? How does a two party system do whatever they want? Is there a commissioner of this system similar to the AFC and the NFC (a two conference system) in professional football?

    The fact is the two party system is what naturally occurs in our Constitutional Republic.

    If people are not scared of BO, why have this site? After all, he is not going to take your gun rights.
    This site is provided by Bumper to discuss gun issues. It was not created out of fear of Obama.

    The only people that can take our rights is us. It really is that simple.

  14. #43
    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
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    I am not a spring chicken, I have been around for a while. I started out a Republican, mainly because I was conservative and believed in the free market. In the 80s, with Reagan rapidly becoming the American Caesar, I jumped to the Libertarian Party, which is an offshoot of the Republican Party by the way. I left because I stopped believing that the way to run a country was to ask extremely rich people how much money they needed and then give it to them out of the Treasury.

    I said many times on this forum that McCain wasn't a whole lot safer than OBama when it came to gun control. Palin was a quick shot of hope, but the party never did take her serious and she would have been a little mouse in the corner if McCain had won.

    We can't rely on Party platforms. The only way to control the issue is to make sure the right Congressmen get elected. Forget Senators, they are owned by their wealthy masters, most of whom are old family friends. We have to get more pro-gun Congressmen in Washington, plain and simple.
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.

  15. #44
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post
    I am not a spring chicken, I have been around for a while. I started out a Republican, mainly because I was conservative and believed in the free market. In the 80s, with Reagan rapidly becoming the American Caesar, I jumped to the Libertarian Party, which is an offshoot of the Republican Party by the way.
    I have always considered the Libertarian party to be an offshoot of the Liberal party. Anyone should be able to do anything regardless of the consequences to society. They are the party of legalizing dangerous drugs and condoning abortion. The most firnge of them want to adopt the particularly poor strategy of appeasement in foregin policy and turn on our allies, like Ron Paul suggested in his failed campaign. Those are the same ideals of liberals.

    We can't rely on Party platforms. The only way to control the issue is to make sure the right Congressmen get elected. Forget Senators, they are owned by their wealthy masters, most of whom are old family friends. We have to get more pro-gun Congressmen in Washington, plain and simple.
    Actually, since the ratification of the 17th Amendment, Senators are elected by the people directly, just like the House of Representatives. Like all our eleced officials, they are owned by the people.

  16. #45
    Member Array trapper T's Avatar
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    How will your Senator vote on this Bail Out? Will they vote the same as your Congressman? Did you tell them how you felt about it? How will they be on Gun Control? If you own them, they should vote for you not against you. My (Republican) Senators voted against the wishes of our state on both Geithner and Holder. Do we own them? When your Senators and Reps. quit caring what you think, it is time to get rid of them.

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