10th Circuit OK's Guns in Employer Parking Lots: Surprising

This is a discussion on 10th Circuit OK's Guns in Employer Parking Lots: Surprising within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Here's the opinion, I hope: http://www.ck10.uscourts.gov/opinions/07/07-5166.pdf The short story here is that some people got fired a few years ago for having guns in their ...

Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: 10th Circuit OK's Guns in Employer Parking Lots: Surprising

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array randytulsa2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,548

    10th Circuit OK's Guns in Employer Parking Lots: Surprising

    Here's the opinion, I hope:

    http://www.ck10.uscourts.gov/opinions/07/07-5166.pdf

    The short story here is that some people got fired a few years ago for having guns in their cars at their employer's parking lot.

    The federal courts that looked at it, including the court of appeals, said that was A-OK, even though Oklahoma law had a "public policy" exception to its "at will" employment doctrine (the "public policy" at issue was the State's providing for the carrying of concealed weapons by non-felons).

    After that the Oklahoma legislature decided to close that loophole and just come out and say that employees could have the guns in their cars, period and end-of-discussion, and it didn't have a doggoned thing to do with a "clearly enunciated public policy exception" to any "at will" employment doctrine, thank-you-very-much.

    Well, the employers in the State, some of whom, IIRC were involved as amici (legalese for "I want a say-so in this case even though I don't have a dog in this fight") in the original litigation just went all berserk.

    They managed to get a federal court to halt the effect of the new law on the ground that OSHA forbade firearms in the workplace.

    The Tenth Circuit righted that wrong today, apparently.

    This is a HUGE victory.

    The losers can still petition for rehearing or reheaing en banc, which might happen (this is an issue of public interest).

    But it looks like this will stand, from the here and now.

    Big, big victory.
    "...bad decisions that turn out well often make heroes."


    Gary D. Mitchell, A Sniper's Journey: The Truth About the Man and the Rifle, P. 103, NAL Caliber books, 2006, 1st Ed.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    N.W.
    Posts
    2,918
    Mixed bag, as usual.

    If OSHA decided to create a rule instead of a voluntary guideline we might be reading a different verdict.

    OSHA has not indicated in any way that
    employers should prohibit firearms from company parking lots. OSHA’s website,
    guidelines, and citation history do not speak at all to any such prohibition. In fact,
    OSHA declined a request to promulgate a standard banning firearms from the
    workplace.
    In declining this request, OSHA stressed reliance on its
    voluntary guidelines and deference “to other federal, state, and local law enforcement
    agencies to regulate workplace homicides.”
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  4. #3
    Distinguished Member Array randytulsa2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,548
    I had forgotten about it, but I had posted about this one when it was back in front of the district court.

    Here's the link to that thread, if anyone is interested. It contains a better backdrop of facts than the one I wrote today:

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...s-re-guns.html
    "...bad decisions that turn out well often make heroes."


    Gary D. Mitchell, A Sniper's Journey: The Truth About the Man and the Rifle, P. 103, NAL Caliber books, 2006, 1st Ed.

  5. #4
    VIP Member
    Array DaveH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    SW Virginia
    Posts
    5,036
    Quote Originally Posted by matiki View Post
    Mixed bag, as usual.

    If OSHA decided to create a rule instead of a voluntary guideline we might be reading a different verdict.
    Another route for an (unnamed) anti-RKBA administration to close down the RKBA.

    Some States base their anti-smoking polices on "worker safety" -- not general public health. The precedent is there.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  6. #5
    Senior Member Array Hivoltage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Newark, Ohio USA
    Posts
    844
    OK...so what does this mean right now for me. Can I carry a weapon in my car at work yet. I would love to print a new law off and stick it in my boss's face
    Nothing Wrong With Shooting as Long as the Right People Get Shot.
    Clint Eastwood, Magnum Force, 1973

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    okla
    Posts
    4,298
    Quote Originally Posted by Hivoltage View Post
    OK...so what does this mean right now for me. Can I carry a weapon in my car at work yet. I would love to print a new law off and stick it in my boss's face
    This was a ruling on an Oklahoma law that had been partially set aside. I'm not sure it affects any other states.

    Michael

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    N.W.
    Posts
    2,918
    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    This was a ruling on an Oklahoma law that had been partially set aside. I'm not sure it affects any other states.

    Michael
    Right.

    The lower court ruled in favor of preventing enforcement of the law that would allow you to keep guns locked in your car even when parked on your employers property.

    The ruling posted above found that the basis for the lower courts ruling was wrong (OSHA), and they overturned the decision.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  9. #8
    Member Array XDFender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Shawnee, Kansas
    Posts
    249
    Partially right, and partially wrong, actually. The decision by the Circuit Court (which covers a broad swath across the middle of the states) reversed the lower court's ruling that effectively said that OK's statute prohibiting employers from barring their employees from keeping guns in their cars when the cars are parked on the employers' property was not enforceable. So, in effect, the 10th Circuit said that OK's statute is enforceable and, therefore, the statute creates an exception to the "at will employment" rule.

    It is important for other states--especially those in the 10th Circuit such as my home state of Kansas--that have similar laws, because it means that such statutes do create an exception to employment at will rules.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    N.W.
    Posts
    2,918
    Quote Originally Posted by XDFender View Post
    Partially right, and partially wrong, actually. The decision by the Circuit Court (which covers a broad swath across the middle of the states) reversed the lower court's ruling that effectively said that OK's statute prohibiting employers from barring their employees from keeping guns in their cars when the cars are parked on the employers' property was not enforceable. So, in effect, the 10th Circuit said that OK's statute is enforceable and, therefore, the statute creates an exception to the "at will employment" rule.

    It is important for other states--especially those in the 10th Circuit such as my home state of Kansas--that have similar laws, because it means that such statutes do create an exception to employment at will rules.
    I'm not following you here.

    The ruling was overturned because it relied entirely upon the employers duty to provide a safe work environment under OSHA. The court found that OSHA does not require that guns be prohibited from the parking lot. As a result, the basis for the lower courts ruling was invalid.

    How does this establish precedence for an exception to at-will employment?
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Nc school Parking lots
    By Koooooooz in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: October 22nd, 2010, 01:03 PM
  2. CW in Walmart parking lots
    By REVMAN in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: December 22nd, 2009, 09:05 PM
  3. Guns in parking lots at work; Idaho
    By Chorizo in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: April 13th, 2009, 09:47 PM
  4. Employer Parking lots
    By Sky King in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: March 12th, 2009, 12:44 AM
  5. (FL) Firearms - Cars - Employer Parking Lot
    By Cthulhu in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: March 28th, 2008, 11:06 PM

Search tags for this page

carrying guns on employer's property osha
,

concealed carry workplace 10th circuit

,
concealed cary nc employer parking
,

court rulings guns in employer parking lots

,
firearms vehicles employer parking lots ohio
,
kansas parking lot firearms law
,
north carolina parking lot rule concealed
,
oklahoma conceal carry government building parking lot
,
oklahoma concealed carry employer
,
oklahoma concealed carry employer parking lot
,

oklahoma concealed carry parking lot

,
oklahoma concealed weapon employer parking lot
Click on a term to search for related topics.