Secure your Second Amendment Rights; Talk to a soldier

This is a discussion on Secure your Second Amendment Rights; Talk to a soldier within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Before Hurrican Katrina and Greensburg Kansas I was not worried about gun snatching in the USA by the authorities. I believed that no law enforcement ...

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Thread: Secure your Second Amendment Rights; Talk to a soldier

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    Member Array bigiceman's Avatar
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    Secure your Second Amendment Rights; Talk to a soldier

    Before Hurrican Katrina and Greensburg Kansas I was not worried about gun snatching in the USA by the authorities. I believed that no law enforcement officer would stoop to following an order to violate his fellow citizen's rights so blatantly. I was wrong.

    We have a standing army in our country. Rumor has it our special forces troops are even asked if they would take military action against our own citizens (this is unconfirmed).

    We all have someone we know in the military or LEO community. If we started asking about their understanding of the rights of our citizens to be free from assault from our own army. If we reminded them that fellow citizens can never under any circumstances be the target of a mission of the regular army. If we planted that seed in all the military people we knew, and the unlikely circumstance occurred where they were given that unlawful order I think it might make a difference. Just like our discussions of scenarios here help us to make the right decision when under stress; that conversation might help them with a moral decission when in the heat of some circumstance.

    I admit this is a little tin-foil-hat society sounding, but what would it hurt? It might save someone's life in the future to have been reminded that their highest oath in the military isn't to obey the orders of their superiors, it is to support and defend the Constitution of the United States.

    I have to say I would love to see the way the media spun it if they found out that the population was entering into a discussion with the members of the armed forces about something like this.
    Last edited by bigiceman; February 27th, 2009 at 05:07 AM. Reason: Misspelled city
    But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
    "Baa."
    LTC(RET) Dave Grossman

    Revolutionary War Veterans Association Shooter Qualification: Cook

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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    I have.... several General's, officers, and on..... I don't think they are a concern.

    I think the concern is local authorities who step over their authority (State, local, etc) and the National Guard.

    Oh... It's "Greensburg", Kansas. That was a pure mess.... bad, bad and bad.... and it was initiated (at gun point at times) by the town's own Police with FBI agents at their side in some cases.

    We got a new law.... that only the Governor can order it..... but.... we're not comfortable with that at all... since we have a very anti-gun Governor.

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    Member Array bigiceman's Avatar
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    I agree that the largest threat is the local authorities. There are always only a few of them and their effect is localized. They can only violate the rights of a community or area. When I mention soldiers I do include the reserves and guard unit members too. A few years ago I probably wouldn't have thought of them that way, now that they are fighting right along side of the regular troops I think of them as regular army. I also think that the LEO community is one that probably needs a lot of talking with about this. You are right they are the first ones who will do the damage. I believe it would be the resistance to the violation of peoples rights by the local police that would be used as a justification for escalation to guard or national forces.
    But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
    "Baa."
    LTC(RET) Dave Grossman

    Revolutionary War Veterans Association Shooter Qualification: Cook

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    Member Array jcaramis's Avatar
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    In my neck of the military (bubblehead squids) by a large majority we are pro-gun and pro-2nd amendment. But we aren't likely to be used in a gun grab anyway
    A dozen means twelve, learn to count bakers! - Stephen Colbert

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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Most young folks , talking 18-25, that I have discussed government with have no idea what the constitution means. Many tell me they were taught that it's a list of individual rights. That it is a malleable document meant to change as time dictates.

    They are surprised to hear that only the states have the power to change it through amendments.

    Michael

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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    A lot of people can't tell you if it's the Bill of Rights, or Constitution. IF asked questions, a lot of people can't tell you who the President of the USA is, let alone the V-Pres.

    Sheep... and apathy, breeds........ and the result is not good.

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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Its not apathy if the kids aren't being taught about it in the first place. When I was growing up it was covered from grade school all the way to last year of high school.

    We were all taught how it was meant to be changed. I wonder why it isn't considered important enough to be covered anymore? Maybe they don't want kids to know what it really says?

    Michael

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    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    Oh... It's "Greensburg", Kansas. That was a pure mess.... bad, bad and bad.... and it was initiated (at gun point at times) by the town's own Police with FBI agents at their side in some cases.

    We got a new law.... that only the Governor can order it..... but.... we're not comfortable with that at all... since we have a very anti-gun Governor.
    Interesting. I feel embarrased that I know nothing about what went on there. I'm assuming this is a reference to the tornado devistation and then something that happened afterword? If that's the case, I find it interesting (not surprising) that nothing was said on the Green channels reality show they did of the devistation and rebuilding. Have a link to more info???
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

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    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    Have a link to more info???
    I googled this and read several articles including a thread that came up here. It appears that most feel, including the NRA, that nothing happened in Greensburg that was a violation of 2A rights.

    As far as New Orleans is concerned, I'll agree with your point. The problem will come if there is a time when the only stable job is in the military and people have to choose between virtue and food.

    Most people are only as moral as their bank account allows. :(
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

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    Member Array bigiceman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    I googled this and read several articles including a thread that came up here. It appears that most feel, including the NRA, that nothing happened in Greensburg that was a violation of 2A rights.
    I think that the NRA response in Greensburg was a total cop-out. Citizens were forceably ordered from their homes when there was no state of emergency declared by anyone with proper authority. Their home, intact homes, were ransacked for firearms and in some cases locked safes or security devices were forced open to take owners weapons. This is not quite the same as New Orleans, but it screams of rights violations and the collection of firearms was a part of it. I agree they had to collect the firearms that were in the debris field. An in-tact home whose occupants have been forced out on pain of arrest or physical violence being searched for guns and those guns collected is a completely different matter. I may not have all the answers about the guns from in-tact homes. Those may have been thefts by the people who were left to guard the town or skilled looters. I have not heard if the guns stolen from the homes were found in the collection trailer. What I do know is if the homeowner had not been ordered out, and the officers had not agreed to this order with sufficient zeal to be willing to use force to carry it out, the homeowner would have been there to protect their property.
    But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
    "Baa."
    LTC(RET) Dave Grossman

    Revolutionary War Veterans Association Shooter Qualification: Cook

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    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigiceman View Post
    I think that the NRA response in Greensburg was a total cop-out. Citizens were forceably ordered from their homes when there was no state of emergency declared by anyone with proper authority.
    If you can provide me with a source then I'll be the next one to jump on the bandwagon. But, as of now, all I can see is heresay so I cannot it as fact.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

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    Member Array bigiceman's Avatar
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    Did you read the report of Patricia A. Stoneking? Have a look at that one while I try to get more info. I am trying to get the testimony of the residents who spoke before committee during the action to pass an Emergency Powers bill (HB2811) in Kansas to prevent this happening again. I don't think the representatives are ambitious enough to do something like that for fun. I will keep trying.

    Link to her report
    But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
    "Baa."
    LTC(RET) Dave Grossman

    Revolutionary War Veterans Association Shooter Qualification: Cook

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    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Good read, thanks for sharing. We're getting warmer but did anyone ever come forward and give their names or file reports of missing and stolen guns or just claim insurance and move on?

    Sorry to hi-jack the intent and message of your orignal post.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

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    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    Heck I talk to a solder every day....

    My Daughter that is, N she is a life NRA member as well. We send her magazine subscriptions every time we send a care package and that is at least once a month, then she shares them around after reading them. Add to that I have nephews in the Army and FBI and they are both staunch pro second amendment people.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

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    Member Array bigiceman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    Good read, thanks for sharing. We're getting warmer but did anyone ever come forward and give their names or file reports of missing and stolen guns or just claim insurance and move on?

    Sorry to hi-jack the intent and message of your orignal post.
    I tried for a long time last night to find a copy of the hearing transcripts that she attended. I could not find a way to get to them. Her reports are the closest I could get.

    We are moving forward into a time when it is going to be very important to make sure that we verify things and do not just listen to rumors. In the near future we may have to make some very tough decisions. It does not pay to make tough decisions lightly or on questionable information.
    But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
    "Baa."
    LTC(RET) Dave Grossman

    Revolutionary War Veterans Association Shooter Qualification: Cook

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