MO to consider lowering CCW permit age limit

This is a discussion on MO to consider lowering CCW permit age limit within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/new...F?OpenDocument JEFFERSON CITY -- Missouri lawmakers have proposed lowering the nation's oldest minimum age requirement for carrying concealed weapons, so that those allowed to drink ...

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Thread: MO to consider lowering CCW permit age limit

  1. #1
    Member Array BrianGarms's Avatar
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    MO to consider lowering CCW permit age limit

    http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/new...F?OpenDocument

    JEFFERSON CITY -- Missouri lawmakers have proposed lowering the nation's oldest minimum age requirement for carrying concealed weapons, so that those allowed to drink alcohol can carry a gun.

    Currently to qualify for a Missouri concealed weapon permit, applicants must be at least 23 years old, live in the state, have no felony convictions and pass a firearms training course and background check.

    Now many of the people who pushed the state to set up that system for allowing concealed weapons want the minimum age lowered.

    Of the 48 states that allow for concealed weapon permits -- only Illinois and Wisconsin do not -- about three-quarters require applicants to be 21 years old, according to Handgunlaw.us, a Web site operated by gun rights supporters to track state firearms laws. Other states allow permits even younger, at age 18.

    Missouri's history with the conceal gun debate has been colorful. In 2003, the state became one of the last to let residents to get a permit for carrying a concealed weapon, which required overriding a gubernatorial veto.

    To get the necessary two-thirds majority in the state Senate, one senator returned from active military duty at Guantanamo Bay. Another helped override the governor even though his home St. Louis County had just a few years earlier accounted for one-third of the votes opposing a failed similar ballot proposal.

    Even after lawmakers passed the conceal and carry law, critics sued and the state Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the law but excused four challenging counties from complying because the state hadn't provided a funding stream for the cost of issuing permits.

    Since 2004, there have been 59,808 requests to the Missouri State Highway Patrol for criminal background checks on those seeking conceal and carry permits.

    Legislation that was considered by a House committee earlier this week has rekindled the debate over concealed weapons.

    Tim Oliver, a firearms trainer involved in efforts to pass Missouri's 2003 law, said setting the age requirement at 23 years old was a political maneuver to pick up votes in Senate.

    Oliver, who also operates the Web site Learntocarry.com, said citizens get most of their rights and privileges by 21 years old. He called dropping the age threshold a matter of fairness, citing the example of soldiers who have returned from Iraq.

    "The sad thing is that we have people who have been to the sandbox and come back at 20 years old and can't get a conceal-carry permit," said Oliver, whose holds classes in Hallsville, Columbia and Ozark.

    Oliver said some of his students are too young to get Missouri permits, but the average age is around 50 years old. He attributed the older crowd to cost, which can get to $600-$700 for the permit, training, background check and gun.

    Critics of the conceal and carry law, and even at least one supporter, said they don't like how backers of the original law are now trying to change some of the provisions that helped garner support for its passage.

    "The most disturbing part of this is that the National Rifle Association and the gun lobby, once they pass a conceal-carry law, they come back year after year and start dismantling all the important criteria that they originally gave their blessing to," said Brian Malte, the director of state legislation for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

    Malte said there's not much difference between allowing permits two years sooner, and the objection is over a gradual erosion of gun restrictions.

    "It's really a slippery slope with them," he said. "The concern is where does it stop, at what point? And what else are they going to dismantle?"

    During a Missouri House committee hearing over the lowering the age requirement, NRA lobbyist Whitney O'Daniel told lawmakers that a predecessor of his in 2003 agreed to increase the minimum age to 23 as part of a political strategy to get the legislation passed.

    O'Daniel, who said Missouri has been "handicapped" by its higher age requirement, was one of the few to speak this week during a brief hearing about the legislation. There was no opposition voiced and the House committee has not yet taken a vote.

    Several other states also have tinkered with their conceal and carry laws to change the age requirement. But many of those efforts, including in Massachusetts, New York and West Virginia, have been geared toward restricting the permits by increasing the minimum age.

    New Mexico, which approved a conceal-carry law the same year as Missouri and in 2003, later broadened the law by dropping the age from 25 to 21 years old.

    The sponsor of Missouri's legislation is a freshman who acknowledged that he didn't know why the state selected 23 years old. Rep. Dan Brown, R-Rolla, said many Missourians have started families by then and should be allowed to defend them.

    "We do have a fundamental right to self defense in our country," he said.

    You guys have any thoughts on this? Obviously I hope they lower the age but does anyone know if this has been tried already and failed?

    My fellow Missourians, make sure to write your local congressperson and insist they vote Yes on House Bill 618, lowering the age from 23 to 21!


    -Brian
    Idealism is what precedes experience; cynicism is what follows.
    - David T. Wolf

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianGarms View Post
    03/06/2009 - Missouri could drop concealed carry age limit - STLtoday.com




    You guys have any thoughts on this? Obviously I hope they lower the age but does anyone know if this has been tried already and failed?

    My fellow Missourians, make sure to write your local congressperson and insist they vote Yes on House Bill 618, lowering the age from 23 to 21!


    -Brian
    I think it should be lowered. As to the second part of your question, not sure if your talking nation wide or just MO. As stated in the article, AZ dropped their age requirement from 25 to 21.

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    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    My thoughts? Lower it to 21. Many 21-year-olds are living on their own and many have families already. They should be allowed to defend themselves and their families in places other than the home.

    Currently, if my daughter were 22, she wouldn't be able to carry a weapon as she went about her day. Yes, I'd like to see it lowered to 21.

    Thanks for the info. I hadn't heard about this yet.

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    At 21 you should be allowed the right to defend yourself,most people by that age can become certified LEO's so what's the difference,as long as they are responsible and realise the responsibility
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
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    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info, Brian.

    I'll write my state legislators.

    I doubt they'll listen to me, but I'll contact them anyway.
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. Winston Churchill

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    Wow....As a Missouri neighbor, I didnt know you had to be 23. Missouri has good ccw laws. I hope this passes.
    Prepare for the worst and hope it never happens

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    Member Array BrianGarms's Avatar
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    The problem with the MO law is the fact that they acknowledge other states permits - even if the age requirement is lower than 23. So in theory, I can go and get a FL permit and carry at 21 in Missouri..

    Why not just lower the age and not make me circumvent the law?
    Idealism is what precedes experience; cynicism is what follows.
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    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    I emailed my senator and representative on this bill.

    Here are a few more CCW bills currently being considered. I used the MO state search page at Missouri House of Representatives and typed in "concealed carry".

    1 HB 562 - CONCEALED CARRY ENDORSEMENTS - Extends from three to five years the time period that a concealed carry endorsement will be valid.
    Next Hearing:. Hearing not scheduled. Calendar:. Bill currently not on a calendar.


    2 HB 618 - CONCEALED CARRY ENDORSEMENTS - Lowers the minimum age requirement for obtaining a concealed carry endorsement from 23 years of age to 21 years of age
    Next Hearing:. Hearing not scheduled. Calendar:. Bill currently not on a calendar.


    3 HB 813 - CONCEALED CARRY ENDORSEMENT FEES - Specifies that sheriffs may charge a fee for a change of address or name for a concealed carry endorsement
    Next Hearing:. Hearing not scheduled. Calendar:. Bill currently not on a calendar.


    4 HB 244 - CONCEALED WEAPONS - Adds prosecuting attorneys, assistant prosecuting attorneys, circuit attorneys, and assistant circuit attorneys to the list of individuals who are exempt from the concealed carry permit requirements
    Next Hearing:.


    5 HB 302 - FIREARMS SAFETY TRAINING - Changes the laws regarding the firearms safety training requirement for obtaining a permit to carry a concealed weapon to allow proof of certain types of military service to satisfy the requirement
    Next Hearing:. Bill currently not on a calendar.


    6 HB 645 - CONCEALED FIREARMS - Removes the provision prohibiting a person with a valid concealed carry endorsement or permit from carrying a concealed firearm into any higher education institution
    Next Hearing:. Hearing not scheduled. Calendar:. Bill currently not on a calendar.
    I hope all those "Hearing not scheduled, Bill currently not on calendar" are just procedural issues that do not mean the bills are dead.

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    Member Array BrianGarms's Avatar
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    Wow I like all of those bills.. I'm with you, I hope these at least come to vote
    Idealism is what precedes experience; cynicism is what follows.
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    I'd lower it to 21, and possibly lower for anyone who has served/is serving their country.
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    Senior Member Array Paladin132's Avatar
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    I'll say this here and now: if you are 18 and can be drafted you should have full privileges. If you can defend the constitution then you should be able to do everything as an adult. Period.

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    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Forget 21, make it 18. Maybe require a probation period from 18 to 21.

    Could help with teen drinking and drug use. I assume having a firearm and being under the influence would generate additional charges. As would possessing a firearm and illegal drugs / contraband.

    Here in MI you have to do a back-ground check and run finger prints. I don't like being treated like a criminal, but I do think it it curbs criminals from trying to get a legal CCW.

    I also think the responsibility of non-LE / armed citizen puts you in a crowd of people that encourages people to stay on the GG team.
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