Are we really that bored?

This is a discussion on Are we really that bored? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Here's some "light" reading. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Monday, March 16, 2009 > > > Do you agree with people like Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, who treat ...

View Poll Results: Are gun owners just bored?

Voters
105. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, we are bored.

    6 5.71%
  • No, the recent postings are actually real.

    16 15.24%
  • This is good warm up for what is coming.

    52 49.52%
  • I am amazed at how gullible some folks are.

    31 29.52%
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 46 to 53 of 53

Thread: Are we really that bored?

  1. #46
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State of Discombobulation
    Posts
    5,254
    Here's some "light" reading.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Monday, March 16, 2009
    >
    >
    > Do you agree with people like Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, who treat
    > the Second Amendment as if it were written only to protect your ability
    > to go hunting and target shooting?
    >
    > Or do you agree with Gun Owners of America, George Washington and
    > Thomas
    > Jefferson, who believe that the Second Amendment protects a
    > pre-existing
    > fundamental right that is essential to the preservation of liberty?
    >
    > Well, a whole lot of people in Congress are claiming to protect your
    > Second Amendment rights, but all they're really doing is protecting
    > your
    > hunting season.
    >
    > We're talking about the Omnibus Public Lands Act. You helped to defeat
    > this bill last week in the House, but Congressional leaders have vowed
    > to bring it up again soon.
    >
    > S. 22 is an enormous package of over 190 bills lumped together with a
    > price tag of $10 billion. The bill will greatly expand the amount of
    > land controlled by the National Park Service, thus spreading the
    > agency's unconstitutional gun regulations to more areas.
    >
    > Fear of upsetting gun owners -- who helped elect many members of
    > Congress from both parties -- kept this bill off the floor for several
    > weeks.
    >
    > Then, in a meeting last Tuesday, not held in an open committee hearing
    > but behind closed doors, House leaders brokered a deal with some
    > supposedly pro-gun Democrats.
    >
    > They said they were concerned about your gun rights. They said they
    > were going to "fix" the bill.
    >
    > But they did not address the NPS anti-gun regulations that prohibit
    > carrying a firearm for self defense without a government issued
    > concealed carry permit.
    >
    > What did they do? They added language to the bill to say you can still
    > go hunting.
    >
    > That's right. Many Congressmen claimed to be protecting the Second
    > Amendment, when all they were really doing was thumbing their noses at
    > self defense.
    >
    > Here is the entire "pro-gun" amendment that was considered in the
    > House.
    > Judge for yourself if this really protects your Second Amendment
    > rights:
    >
    > "Nothing in this Title shall be construed as affecting the authority,
    > jurisdiction, or responsibility of the several States to manage,
    > control, or regulate fish and resident wildlife under State law or
    > regulations, including the regulation of hunting, fishing, trapping,
    > and
    > recreational shooting. Nothing in this Title shall be construed as
    > limiting access for hunting, fishing, trapping, or recreational
    > shooting."
    >
    > They may as well have called it the "Elmer Fudd Protection Act."
    >
    > A lot of people who voted for this bill campaigned for office as
    > champions of gun rights. They said "Send me to Washington; I'll fight
    > for the Second Amendment." And this is what we get? Pathetic.
    >
    > But let's be clear. The issue is not just about the NPS gun
    > restrictions, as bad as they are. And whether or not you personally
    > use
    > federal land is not the point.
    >
    > What is important is the disdain with which legislators hold your
    > Second
    > Amendment rights.
    >
    > It is imperative that you speak up on this issue. The outcome of this
    > battle will be a preview of what we can expect for the next two years.
    > Will your gun rights be comprised away little by little? Or will we
    > stand together and hold legislators accountable to their campaign
    > promises to uphold the Second Amendment?
    >
    > This week there may be several votes in both the Senate and House on
    > the
    > Omnibus Land bill.
    >
    > Congressional leaders plan to act quickly in an attempt to ram this
    > down
    > the throat of the American people without a fair and open process. They
    > desperately want to avoid any amendment that would truly protect your
    > gun rights.
    >
    > Congress hopes to leave the gun ban in place, and enlarge the areas
    > affected by it. For example, the bill expands existing park land,
    > creates new national trails that will fall under the gun restrictions,
    > and authorizes the federal government to buy more land adjacent to
    > national parks and trails.
    >
    > House and Senate leaders plan to move on this bill rapidly, although
    > they are ambiguous about the process.
    >
    > But our message to Congress is simple: Stop playing around with our
    > Second Amendment rights!
    >
    > We don't care about the process. We care about the Second Amendment.
    > And we mean ALL of the Second Amendment, not just hunting.
    >
    > Tell Congress you expect them to protect your right to keep and bear
    > arms without compromising. Please take a few seconds and send the
    > pre-written message below.
    >
    > When you're done, become a force multiplier. Send this alert to a few
    > friends.
    >
    > It is important that you take this action because right now GOA is the
    > only gun rights organization speaking out for ALL of your Second
    > Amendment rights.
    >
    > We've all forwarded jokes or funny pictures to our friends. How about
    > forwarding a message to help protect our God-ordained constitutionally
    > protected right to keep and bear arms?
    >
    > And please do not think your voice won't be heard. Remember, this bill
    > failed to pass the House by just two votes last week because people
    > like
    > you took action.
    >
    > Congressmen need to know that their votes in the coming days will
    > impact
    > YOUR vote next year. But if they don't hear from you and they think
    > you're not looking, many will treat your rights with contempt.
    >
    > We're not alone in this battle. In the Senate, pro-gun champions such
    > as Sens. Tom Coburn and Jim DeMint are prepared to lead the fight
    > against this bill.
    >
    > In the House, Reps. Paul Broun, Rob Bishop and Doc Hastings are among
    > those fighting hard for your gun rights.
    >
    > In fact, there are many in Congress willing to stand up for the Second
    > Amendment, but they are repeatedly squashed by the anti-gun leadership
    > or undermined by pro-gun compromisers. Pro-gun Congressmen who want to
    > repeal the gun ban are being told, in effect, to "Shut up and vote!"
    >
    > Friends, we know we've asked for a lot of action from you already this
    > year.
    >
    > Unfortunately, that is not going to stop. But we will all draw the
    > line
    > at some point. Let's work together and do it now.
    >
    > Thank you for working with Gun Owners of America. Our effectiveness in
    > Washington depends on your activism. PLEASE try to get your pro-gun
    > friends and family involved. Now more than ever, every voice is
    > critical.
    >
    > ACTION: Please use the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center at
    > http://gunowners.org/activism.htm to tell your Representative and
    > Senators to reject the lands bill (S. 22) unless your Second Amendment
    > rights are protected. Per usual, a pre-written letter is provided for
    > your convenience.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #47
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    3,407
    I guess we kind of need to be like the fire department. Respond to every call no matter what, not sit and wait until we can see the smoke from the garage door (unlike a great many police departments that stopped responding to burglar alarm calls - business and private)

    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    This is sheer nonsense. Many of us are business owners, executives and have experience in managing large companies and wide ranging organizations. To think that a puppet like Obama is more qualfied in any degree is an insult to those who really do know how to manage and lead an organization.

    None of us could do better? I suggest that my dog would do better.
    And as a business owner, you know the secretary is the one who actually runs the company. The person in the corner office just signs the documents, contracts, and memos where the secretary points, tells them when the next meeting they need to attend is and what it is about, who they talk to on the phone, and meet in person.

    A good bookkeeper is worth their weight in gold (notice how big some of them are?).

    The rest of us do as we are told, and I presume to do the best that we can.

    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    How do you explain that gun laws throughout the nation are expanding in favor of the gun owner? More states have concealed carry laws, more states are shall issue, and the castle doctrine laws are prevalent. Further, the Court opinion in favor of Heller is roundly applauded as a monumental decision...
    The individual States may be advancing gun rights, but the Feds are definitely trying their best to take total control. That is where my focus is. I am concerned with what my state does with gun laws, but I am even more concerned about what the Federal Level is able to accomplish. Large multi subject/unrelated bills so large that they never get read or are rushed through based on title and the originators "Cliff Notes" on it are. How many pages long was that stimulus bill?

    I am an average blue collar worker. My education stopped at high school (with the exception to trade school). I did not do so hot in Geography (I'd be lucky to name all 50 states let alone the capitols of each one - never mind all the countries of the world) or Civics (I have a basic understanding of how government is supposed to work).

    I do know that the US is a litigious country, and every thing that can be interpreted differently will be, hence the need for advanced legal jargon to make a simple 27 word statement ...

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
    ...rewritten into several thousand words that will be incomprehensible without a law degree to keep it from being mis-interpreted. Even changing the capitalization of a couple of words changes the entire meaning.

    That document is only 233 (did I get my math right?) years old. People are still arguing over the "Bible", nevermind killing over it. How old is that book?
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  4. #48
    Member Array socal2310's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Camarillo, CA
    Posts
    467
    I agree that there is a lot of paranoia out there, but I don't really see what has happened as crying wolf, I see it as being perpetually in condition orange. We need to relax and bring things back to condition yellow without lapsing into the condition white mindset that characterized the Second Amendment community through the middle 90's.

    The Government can't be run like a business. A business cannot take on unlimited debt without going out of business (or couldn't until Keynes had his final victory in D.C. ) a business can't create a budget without regard to income and most importantly, a business cannot compel customers to use their services at the point of a gun. What we have seen on Wall Street is not the failure of the free market. We are seeing the failure of treating private enterprise like public goods.

    Ryan
    Those who will not govern their own behavior are slaves waiting for a master; one will surely find them.

  5. #49
    Member Array samh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Damascus, Arkansas
    Posts
    159
    I look at it as being proactive, instead of reactive. For years we have sat back and waited for the "ant's" to make a move and them push back. Sometimes we were too late in pushing back and the head start they got won them the day. We need to be on the offense more and let them spend their capital pushing back at us instead of the other way around.
    Annual Member NRA 1972-88
    Life Member NRA 1988
    Endowment Member NRA 2013
    SAF Member 2013

  6. #50
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    2,736
    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    The individual States may be advancing gun rights, but the Feds are definitely trying their best to take total control. That is where my focus is. I am concerned with what my state does with gun laws, but I am even more concerned about what the Federal Level is able to accomplish.
    I think your priorities are skewed. The focus for everyone should be at the local level. The Federal government is prohibited from infringing on the right to keep and bear arms. Many people are focussed on the Federal government but they are impotent to pass significant anti-gun legislation. Yes, they can pass taxes and even limit certain classes of weapons (see the Court opinion in Miller, in which sawed off shotguns were specifically addressed) but the people of the states need to focus on their state laws. Despite the tin hat crowd, the Federal government has done nothing to infringe on the right to keep and bear arms and, in fact, the Heller opinion directly addressed the issue at the Federal level in our favor.

    Yes, our rights are acknowledged at the Federal level. Ironically, Obama had more power to affect gun laws as a Senator than he does as President.

    ...rewritten into several thousand words that will be incomprehensible without a law degree to keep it from being mis-interpreted. Even changing the capitalization of a couple of words changes the entire meaning.
    It does not require a law degree to understand the Constitution. Even some lawyers are unable to understand. It was written for the people and most individuals can easily determine the original intent. It even comes with a users manual, The Federalist Papers.

    However, many seem to think it prevents gun laws from being enacted. That is incorrect.

  7. #51
    Member Array concealed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    466
    SD,

    The problem is that as simple as you make it seem, the rest of the country does not think it so simple. I can read the Constitution myself and think it pretty straight forward, but then read the writings of Justices on some cases, and they make it more confusing than it needs to be. It is like everything else the government gets involved in; a mess!

    If it was so simple, then why all the debate here and elsewhere, by some so-called "experts".
    Men look out for themselves; real men look out for others!

  8. #52
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    2,736
    Quote Originally Posted by concealed View Post
    The problem is that as simple as you make it seem, the rest of the country does not think it so simple. I can read the Constitution myself and think it pretty straight forward, but then read the writings of Justices on some cases, and they make it more confusing than it needs to be. It is like everything else the government gets involved in; a mess!
    I don't think the Constitution is a mess. Without government involvement in the military and national security, we would have no country at all. Exactly which writings are you referring to? I find the Court opinions, for the most part, to be well argued, well researched, and easily understood. Most of the unintelligible legalese is presented by contract law in an attempt to obfuscate and mislead.

    If it was so simple, then why all the debate here and elsewhere, by some so-called "experts".
    We like debate. I respect those who present logical arguments backed up with facts. Other than that, the posts are often just opinions or hopes. Nothing wrong with that but opinion is often used as a substitute for understanding.

    It is good to present issues and debate their merit. That is one reason America is a great country.

  9. #53
    Member Array concealed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    466
    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    I don't think the Constitution is a mess. Without government involvement in the military and national security, we would have no country at all. Exactly which writings are you referring to? I find the Court opinions, for the most part, to be well argued, well researched, and easily understood. Most of the unintelligible legalese is presented by contract law in an attempt to obfuscate and mislead.



    We like debate. I respect those who present logical arguments backed up with facts. Other than that, the posts are often just opinions or hopes. Nothing wrong with that but opinion is often used as a substitute for understanding.

    It is good to present issues and debate their merit. That is one reason America is a great country.

    Good point. I made a mistake when I said the constitution was a mess, I meant the federal government. The Constitution is fine as written. The Feds however, that is a different story!
    Men look out for themselves; real men look out for others!

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Los, if you're bored....
    By crabbys44 in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: March 6th, 2011, 06:58 PM
  2. Bored with my CCW
    By BugDude in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: August 30th, 2010, 11:03 PM
  3. OK , Who got bored?
    By Pure Kustom in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: October 27th, 2009, 06:14 PM
  4. I'm getting bored.
    By Sticks in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: November 25th, 2008, 08:23 PM
  5. Bored at work
    By wareagleky in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: March 29th, 2008, 09:52 AM

Search tags for this page

60 minutes dod demil

Click on a term to search for related topics.